Leveling Scope to Rifle

[521dvx]

What is the best level to level your scope to the level of the rifle. I have 2 sets of the same make levels. One set I bought by themself and the other set came in a kit with a torque wrench, scope ring lapping bar and a ring alignment tool. I am not pleased with these levels. How do you level your scope?

[sakofan]

Go on YouTube and look up how to square your scope by mrad outdoors.
It's the best method I ever used.

[204Luver]

You don't need to "level" anything, you just need to make sure the vertical crosshair is pointed precisely at the center of your bore. I just eyeball it, but you do have to be careful, else your POI will drift right or left at long range.

[521dvx]

Thanks I will see what I can do.

[dsandfort]

Well, you got some advice. The video referenced looks sound but I'm not sure about the other. I can't figure out how you know the vertical crosshair is vertical without a level.
I level the rifle (action) with a small magnetic level. Then I place another level on the scope elevation turret and move the scope until both levels are, well, level.
If you have some room, you can install a horizontal level at some distance. If you level the action you can then sight in on the distant level and move the scope so the horizontal lines are parallel. Same thing with a distant plumb line like in the video.

Hope this helps

[Rick in Oregon]

dsandfort, That's exactly the method I've used for 50 years, and it's worked well. After leveling it that way, I then do a visual check with one of the old Scope Levels which is simply a plastic thingie with horizontal hash marks that registers on the rifle action. In use you check the parallelism of the hash marks to your horizontal crosshair. Cheap, works very well.

Just eyeballing it only will almost always result in the scope NOT being aligned properly with the axis of the bore. Over the years I've worked on many rifles not owned by me that "would not shoot", and many times the culprit was a scope that had been "perfectly eyeballed" by the well intended owner, and shot off to one side of the bull every time because of the natural human capacity for canting. A couple of cases the owners told me the scope was out of horizontal travel. After proper leveling, these rifles all shot well.

Almost everyone will cant a scoped rifle if the scope is not properly leveled. I've probably mounted over 300 scopes for myself and friends in my lifetime. And many times after I've properly mounted a scope for a friend and handed him the rifle to shoulder the weapon, they'll often say "hey, it's croooked". But in reality, they're so used to natural canting, the perfectly alilgned/mounted scope will appear canted to them, when it's actually perfect. I've seen this many times.

Once the rifle scope is properly mounted and leveled, it may take some time to get used to it upon the initial shouldering of the rifle. But the method will prove itself once the owner unleashes it again out around 300 yards or further. "Hey, the thing really shoots now!"

[204Luver]

Well, you got some advice. The video referenced looks sound but I'm not sure about the other. I can't figure out how you know the vertical crosshair is vertical without a level.
I level the rifle (action) with a small magnetic level. Then I place another level on the scope elevation turret and move the scope until both levels are, well, level.
If you have some room, you can install a horizontal level at some distance. If you level the action you can then sight in on the distant level and move the scope so the horizontal lines are parallel. Same thing with a distant plumb line like in the video.

Hope this helps

The problem with that method is that you can have the action level, and the scope level, but the vertical crosshair still does not point at the center of the bore. If everything is perfect (receiver, mounts and rings) what you described works great, but so often something is slightly off. I say go right to the critical alignment, which is that the vertical crosshair must point at the center of the bore. It is indeed a bit tricky to eyeball, but it is also easy to verify by cranking your elevation turret way up (or down) and seeing if your impacts are exactly vertical. You can actually shoot at long range on a calm-air day or you can shoot at sight-in distance and let your impacts hit high (or low). If your impacts aren't exactly vertical, you have some cant and need to adjust. That is the only way you are going to be sure.

When you need a level is when you are all done and shooting at long range. If you don't have something in your field of view you know is dead vertical or horizontal to use as a reference, it is extremely difficult to not have any cant in the scope. When shooting BR I make sure my target backer is perfectly vertical. I built a base that keeps it where I set it. However, when hunting I don't have that. That is when a level on the scope is real nice to have.

[varget204]

Listen to dsandfort and Rick in Oregon,you want to level the gun ,level the base-bases,level scope.After leveling check crosshair from a rest on a Plumb bob if possible.I highly recommend an offset anti-cant bubble. Most shooters unknowingly cant their guns. Vortex makes a good one for $30-35 If your scope isn't level ,you will have big problems at Distance. I know there used to be a Leveling APP you could get on your cell phone that was Super Accurate; sorry i can't remember the name of it.[if you can find a 1x2 or 1x 3" piece of thin sheet metal thats flat you can lay it down on base-s to level gun] if your base-s are steel you can use a small magnet on plate ,makes it a lot easier to set you level when there isn't enough room between base & scope. I thought i was wrong once back in the 50's Sadly i was Mistaken. varget204

[Bill K]

521dvx.. There is good reason for the sale of leveling units for mounting and leveling a scope/rifle combo. Go to any high level long range/bench rest match and you will find each and every one of those shooters uses them to level and mount their scopes, They also have leveling units on the scope or rifle to make sure they are also level while shooting and not canting. Rick and some others that have mentioned using them and having them are spot on.
Go to Brownell's, Midway USA or some other suppliers and you can check out the various units and purchase some in the price range you want to spend. you will never be sorry you did and they last a life time, for use. Bill K

[Rick in Oregon]

All my rat rifles wear levels, both inline and offset. The offset units are nice as you can see them easily without moving your head from the scope. Here's one on my Cooper M38 20VT, an inline unit from MGW:



My game rifles intended for mulies and antelope also wear levels. The difference these units make in the field for shooting at extended range is remarkable.

[521dvx]

Thanks for all the responses. I definitely will purchase and use one of the scope levels pictured. Thanks Varget, Bill, & Rick.

[Bill K]

521dvx.. You are most welcome. I am like Rick and also my shooting partner, that moved to Colo. have the level mounting system on all our bench rifles and I also have one on one hunting rifle, so a fast check can be made and be sure the rifle is not canted, when shots are taken, especially when the range starts getting over 250 yards. You will never be sorry you spent the time, effort and money to use them, both in mounting a scope and shooting. Let us know how it finally works out and then add a few photos of a few hits/kills.. SMILE. Bill K

[204Luver]

This conversation has gone incoherent. The levels we mount to prevent canting while shooting have absolutely NOTHING to do with how you mount the scope in the first place.

Here is an absurd example but it proves a point -- imagine a rifle that has its receiver 1" to the left of where it should be. Or .5" or .1", whatever. You can get that receiver exactly level, and you can then get the scope you are mounting on it exactly level, but do you think it is going to shoot straight as you extend the range? Of course not.

BECAUSE YOU PAID NO ATTENTION TO WHETHER THE THE VERTICAL CROSSHAIR POINTS TO THE CENTER OF THE BORE OR NOT.

Using levels to SHOOT scopes is great. Using them to MOUNT scopes is folly. You are assuming there are no errors in the alignment of the receiver OR the rings. Works great in DREAMLAND.

[Bill K]

Just for a note of information. The level systems/devices to mount and level a scope to a firearm are made for just doing that.
The level device, for canting is different and is mounted to the scope after the other set up is done.
They both have a place and are well worth using, if you want to sort out and make your firearm one step closer to being as accurate as possible, along with good loads and then working on pilot error ( the one holding, squeezing and shooting) Just my thought. If you want to use them fine, if you don't that is fine also. We all have a choice and free will. Bill K

[dsandfort]

I think the only incoherent conversation is suggesting that "you just need to make sure the vertical crosshair is pointed precisely at the center of your bore" and to achieve that level of precision "just eyeball it". The OP has been given multiple citations on how to achieve the former by using objective measurement as a starting point.
No need to shout to make an alternative point.