New 20 VT rifle in the way!

[SactoBill]

I am new to this forum and have been lurking and reading as much as possible. With feedback and advice from members here, I just purchased a NIB Cooper 38 in 20VT.

I'm very excited as this will be my first Cooper and my first 20 cal.

I do have a question in regards to a scope and matching rings. I was looking at the Leupold VX-3 LR 6.5-20x40 with the varmint hunter reticle. Is this a good choice? The rifle comes with Leupold base so would a Leupold medium height rings fit?

I also purchased 120 rounds of the HSM ammo to get me started. I would reload but I can't find any primers in stock locally. Does anyone know about the components of the HSM round?

Thanks!

Bill

[RAMOS]

Bill, welcome to the site! A double congratulation is in order. First, for choosing the 20VT and second, for getting a Cooper. Heck, a third one for finding it in the Model 38 action!!! Your scope choice is also right on the money. I have the same rifle in a Model 21, same scope with Leupold bases and standard rings in medium height. I have never measured the clearance but have wondered if I could have gone with low rings. I suspect the answer is yes, with the Leupold lens caps. No, with Butler Creek caps. I am sure someone here will know for sure. Again, welcome and congrats. You have a sure-fire combo for endless fun and grins. Good luck with the primers. I can still get 205M's and 7 1/2's but, am guessing you are in the Sacramento area?

[SactoBill]

Hi Ramos,

Yes I am in Sacramento. I've never seen the shelves so bare before! I can't even get .22's at a decent price.

I'm going to have to really ration the HSM rounds until I can get some primers.

[Mike]

A Cooper M38 in 20VT with a Leupold VX3 6.5-20 & Varmint hunter reticle?

That's akin to flashing the bat signal over Gotham to RIO. He's probably compiling a post with photos as I type this.

[RAMOS]

And, I am sure Rick will know how low you can go with the scope rings.

[Rick in Oregon]

A Cooper M38 in 20VT with a Leupold VX3 6.5-20 & Varmint hunter reticle? That's akin to flashing the bat signal over Gotham to RIO. He's probably compiling a post with photos as I type this.

HA! You may have been spot-on Mike if I had not just been up at Nosler picking up a batch of Varmageddon seconds. Bat Signal indeed.....good one bud. (And of course you're right, I homed right in on that Cooper M38 20VT thing.....just the right combination of letters to get me worked up .)

And, I am sure Rick will know how low you can go with the scope rings.

If the Leupold VX3 is the 40mm objective, "yep", it'll fit nice 'n low over the bore with Low Rings. Here's my M38 20VT dressed with hers...VX3 6.5-20X LR with VHR, 40mm objective and Low Rings (Leupold Alumina covers, B/C's won't fit this low):



The 50mm requires Medium Rings, but unless you plan to shoot varmints in dusk or almost dark, no reason whatever to use the honkin' 50mm version. You'll also get a much better cheek weld with the 40mm and Low Rings. Your neck will thank you too.

So Sacto Bill, welcome to the forum, the small caliber madness, and sincere congratulations for the double score on the Cooper and the No.1V. You're in for a real .20 caliber treat, especially with the little VT, which weather you believe it or not right now, will soon become your favorite varmint rifle....much to the chagrin of your local ground rats.

And remember it's easier to get forgiveness than permission....just take her out for dinner and tell her of your transgression during desert.....yeah, that'll do it.

[SactoBill]

Thanks Rick!

That's the exact scope info I was looking for. My 38 is shipping with a Leupold base. Is yours Talley? Would that make a difference in regards to ring height?

I'm thinking of getting a Weaver 6.5-20x40 for the #1 because the shop I'm getting the rifle from is selling that scope for 30% off list price. I'm not familiar with Weaver's. Would that be a good choice?

[Rick in Oregon]

Bill, you sure are fortunate to find a M38 in 20VT...no longer made and quite a nice find. Mine has both Leupold bases and rings, and most ring mfgrs make their rings in similar heights. Medium is usually .5" measured to the bottom inside of the ring half to the base for a reference. Leupold has complete ring/mount info in their catalog and on their website also I believe.

Can't comment on the Weaver, all mine are Leupold, but from what I hear, Weaver is not a bad choice, even made in the USA. HTH

[SactoBill]

Thanks Rick. I bought it on Gunbroker. I was overseas on business and kept watching it. There were a couple of bids but it didn't reach the sellers reserve price. I told myself that if it was still there when I got home, I'd bid on it. But at the airport waiting for a return flight I just said to heck with it and bought it.

I posted a question on rimfire central in the Cooper section asking about the 38. I think Alex Clark responded. Anyhow just waiting for the 10 day jail sentence to be completed.

[Rick in Oregon]

I posted a question on rimfire central in the Cooper section asking about the 38. I think Alex Clark responded. Anyhow just waiting for the 10 day jail sentence to be completed.

Bill, Alex may be the most knowledgeable person in the country in regard to the 20VT, with maybe TK himself being the exception. Alex has a huge Cooper collection, even won the Saubier Shoot last year with one of his Cooper 20VT's (he's got more than one). Alex also wrote a couple of very good articles for Small Caliber News (I sure do miss it!) on both the Cooper and the 20VT.....lots of good info. If you need the issue numbers, let me know.

Are you aware of the only downside to this rifle? It's the inability to eject loaded rounds if loaded long to reach the lands. If shooting poly-tipped bullets loaded long, the bullet tip will not clear the short action opening of the little Model 38, so you must withdraw the bolt or shoot the round. No problem of course if loaded a bit deeper in the case. No biggie, just somthing to be aware of with your new rig, which by the way will bring quite a smile to your face when you open the box soon.

I put Jard 10oz triggers in all my Coopers, as the factory trigger will not go down below about 1.5 lbs, and all mine are shot as bench guns. Cooper has been working on their "BR" trigger now for over a year, so they'll soon be offering a replacement trigger for bench and precision shooting if that interests you.

On that ten day 'jail sentence'......yeah, one never knows when a deranged person will go bonkers with a single shot bolt gun chambered in a .20 caliber rat cartridge. Gotta be careful.

[SactoBill]

Rick,

Alex did mention the issue about extraction issues. What length do you load to with 32 grn V-max?

On reloading, do you use a FL die, then a neck die and then a seating die?

Thanks!

Bill

[Rick in Oregon]

Bill, here's my 20VT lengths with a 32gr NBT loaded .005" off the lands:
Overall Cartridge Length: 1.930"
Stoney Point/Ogive Length: 1.573"

In loading this little critter, I usually see if three new/virgin neck sized cases will chamber after forming. If so, there's absolutely no reason whatever to work the brass by F/L sizing, so I'll just neck size the entire 100 pc lot and shoot them until the shoulders need a bump. If/when that happens (has not so far), I'll use my Body Die to just bump the shoulder, avoiding F/L sizing again.

As this is such an inherient accurate caliber, a standard seating die will produce accurate ammunition, but for the best in terms of potential accuracy, I use a Redding Competition Seating Die with in-line seating sleeve and the mic adjustment and check my loads with a Holland Concentricity Gauge. Others report excellent results with the Forester and RCBS Comp Seating Dies also, I just prefer Redding for a variety of reasons. The comp seaters allow precise seating depths in regard to distance from the lands, plus produce the absolute minimum TIR short of an arbor press and hand dies.

HTH, you're really going to love your new rifle in 20VT. Remember, we like pics.

[SactoBill]

Thanks Rick! Much appreciated.

I'll post pics as soon as she's released from jail.

[Bodei]

get the Redding bushing neck sizing die and buy a .226 bushing, I have the Redding dies and your wallet hurts but you will only hurt once! I can hardly wait ti get my Cooper M21 out to kill something! Punxatawney Phil says his little cousins will be out early this year!

[SactoBill]

Bodei,

My first varmint kill was a woodchuck I shot in upstate NY. That was so exciting! I shot it with a Ruger 10/22 Deluxe that I had worked for by painting my mom's kitchen.

Too bad there are no chucks in Cali.