CFE223 range report (finally)

[mec1]

Hey Everyone, I just want to add my inital experience with CFE223.

I loaded up some 32gr NBTs in my .204 and finally got out to shoot them. Velocities were pretty good, matching Hodgdon's data within about 0.75%. I'm shooting a 24" barreled AR, so I'm pretty happy with that.

Group size seemed pretty good to me, although I haven't settled on a load yet. Most groups were around the 0.8" range, which is on par or slightly better than my previous attempts. I did have a couple smaller groups that I need to verify though, so hopefully with a little fine tuning I can shrink that down a bit.

I still need to scope to bore to see how the "copper eraser" function worked, so I can't comment on that yet.

Hopefully this info is useful to you. If anyone has found some good pet loads with CFE and 32 grainers I'd love to hear them!

Mike

[Bert]

Question..

can someone post up a decent close-up of a sample of CFE-223 powder (on a white envelope for contrast)?

Thanks,

Bert

[Darkker]

The "copper cleaner" is a tin(possibly some bismuth) compound, that has been around for a VERY long time. The publicity for it however is new to the masses.
If you look at the MSDS sheets for CFE and Win 748 & Win 760 they are the same. 760/748 have had it for at least 20 years(according to the MSDS).
Tin/Bismuth as an anti-coppering agent is talked about a fair amount in Hatcher's Notebook; again, been around a long time.

Although I am yet to be 100% confirmed, I believe strongly that CFE223 is in fact SMP-842. Which is the military powder for the "new" M855 ammo. Used specifically due to the all copper bullets.

[Bert]

Although I am yet to be 100% confirmed, I believe strongly that CFE223 is in fact SMP-842. Which is the military powder for the "new" M855 ammo. Used specifically due to the all copper bullets.

Which is why I asked for a photo of CFE223.

I have been explicitly told the same (842 = CFE223), but *my* 8 lb jug of 842 is absolutely 15-20% hotter than the minimum published CFE223 .204 data on Hogdon's web site. In fact, my jug of 842 is pretty much matching their H322 data (over multiple .204 projectiles).

still investigating, but puzzled.

B.

[Vartarg]

I haven't tried CFE223 in my .204s, but I recently posted this at the 6BR forum website...might be of interest.


I've got an F Class Savage in 6BR and a NF BR 12-42 scope. I'm using the 107SMK bullet, treated with WS2. I'm shooting at 200 yards.

I'm posting this for a couple of reasons: one, I think there's interest in Hodgdon's new CFE223 powder; and to get some input and comments on my results.

Re the powder, I decided to start with the CFE223 to see what the results are, and how it works in my 6BR. I've had good accuracy results with a .223 AR, but haven't done any velocity work with it. I also loaded some rounds with Varget for today.

I got to the range about 8:30am....it's an hour from home...early for me, and the temperature was about 68 with mild humidity and there was little appreciable wind at least until I left at 10:45am.

I began, just for benchmark purposes, by firing 4 five round strings with 29.8, 30.0, 30.2 and 30.4 of Varget. Accuracy was decent, with velocity ranging from 2701 up to 2733.

I then fired 5 strings of five shots using CFE223 ranging from 29.8, in .2 increments, up to 30.6. Average velocity was from 2641 up to 2642. The SD in order were: 22.8, 24.7, 34.7, 14.0 and 32.8.

I'm attaching a photo of the last two strings: 30.4 and 30.6 of CFE223. There were no signs of pressure issues at those levels. I'd especially appreciate comments about the high SDs. They were also high with the Varget, ranging from 13.9 to 31.8. It seems to me that there's not much velocity spread esp. with the CFE powder. The chrony is a CED M2.

Re the cleaning issue, in the 140 rds I've put through this new rifle, I haven't yet been able to see any convincing evidence that it cleans up any easier or differently than IMR8208, Benchmark or other modern powders. I think the fact that all my bullets are treated with WS2 may have something to do with that....or maybe that's just what I want to think.

[Darkker]

Although I am yet to be 100% confirmed, I believe strongly that CFE223 is in fact SMP-842. Which is the military powder for the "new" M855 ammo. Used specifically due to the all copper bullets.

Which is why I asked for a photo of CFE223.

I have been explicitly told the same (842 = CFE223), but *my* 8 lb jug of 842 is absolutely 15-20% hotter than the minimum published CFE223 .204 data on Hogdon's web site. In fact, my jug of 842 is pretty much matching their H322 data (over multiple .204 projectiles).

still investigating, but puzzled.

B.

The 15-20% difference I don't think(FWIW) means much, when dealing with Hodgy.
A few things to consider, at the very least:
26.6 gr of Win 748 in the 223 has been the LONGTIME accuracy standard, and is not a max load. If you look at the current Hodgy info, max is nowhere near that level. However the max load listed is also horribly low pressure. Current listed max, and 26.6 is over 20% different....

Also in both my Nosler book and Speer books, there is about a 2 grain difference between loads(243) with Win 760, and H414. Those are the exact same powder, the differences come from lot variation.

My point with all of this is that, since Hodgdon is a re-seller only; they don't seem to be on the cutting edge in regards to testing. With BOTH CFE223 and Superformance powder, they came out with the advertising guns blazing. But anymore than the initial load data has been non-existant, or very slow coming.

Especially if 842 = CFE223, The military demand for train loads of powder will trump a truck load for Hodgdon.

Again this part is speculative..
Hodgdon buys lots of powder(mililtary=Non-canister grade), THEN blends them to conform to their canister-grade spec. Given all of the testing with the new M855 round, and when CFE223 was released; it is at the least reasonable to think that what Hodgdon is buying NOW, is not what they originally released/received. This also explains why more info for CFE has been relatively slow coming.


...on a somewhat side note, IF you can find WC-748 and compare it to Win 748, there is a fair amount of difference in burning rate. Those are the same powder, the difference(besides normal lot variations) is Canister-grade, Vs. NON-Canister grade specs..

[Paul]

223 Loaded with CFE223 29grs and 40 grs of Barnes Varmitator. I pull the third shot. At 100 yds. Total of 5 shot group Using this powder it did not take me more that 30 mins to clean, actually less than that.