Winchester Brass

[Hedge]

Can't tell you to shoot 'em. Wouldn't feel comfortable if they punched through and you got hot gas blowing back. If it were me, I'd disassemble them. I look at it this way, you're running about 56,000 psi; why take the risk for a few primers? I've had punch through with factory loads and was lucky the safety vents on the Savage ported the gas away.

I don't see anything to be gained by shooting them. You can recover the bullets, powder and brass. You're getting good groups but you're going to change primers anyway. So, you'll re-develop the load with the harder primers. You'll find your tight group again.

For load development, there are 2 popular methods; Audette Ladder and the OCW. Check them out. I favor the OCW because it doesn't require more than a 100 yd range and it's pretty easy to interpret the results.

Good list of lessons learned.

Another thing to read up on is pressure sign indications. Flat or cratered primers don't necessarily tell the full story. What you've seen is a pressure sign but it's related to the suitability of the primer and not overpressure of the load.

[jo191145]

Yep, pull em. When a primer blows that hot gas is released backwards like a cutting torch. Can damage your receiver on that Encore or worse your eyesight. I've seen primers welded to boltfaces. I shoot with a Fella who popped a primer in a Remington action and needed to learn how to shoot lefthanded afterwards. Eyes are fragile. Shooting glasses............

No idea where you shop but if you see some MagTech 7.5's on the shelf DO NOT buy them. They can't hold water much less pressure from a cartridge. At least the brick I bought is USELESS.
Remington 7.5's are another story. I use mostly Fed 205M myself. Not the thickest but for me the accuracy can seldom be beat and they can handle any book data plus some.

Calhoons data is very accurate in my opinion. You can use that to judge where you need to be.

[Wrangler John]

My experience with Remington 6-1/2 primers was in IHMSA Silhouette competition years ago. I loaded the 7 TCU (.223 Remington necked up to 7mm) with a 130 grain Speer bullet, Reloader 7 and a Remington 6-1/2 primer for the Contender pistol. While the load was within safe pressure limits, the 6-1/2 would consistently blow a little pinhole in the edge of the cup. That would allow a jet of hot high velocity gas to erode a little divot in the firing pin bushing. Switching to Remington 7-1/2 BR primers solved the pinhole problem but accuracy suffered. The load with the 6-1/2 primer shot under 3/4" groups at 50 yards with a 10" open sighted barrel. So I just accepted the pinholes and erosion of the firing pin bushing. It wasn't a problem because I received free replacement parts from Thompson Center so the bushing could be replaced as needed. Because the edge of the primer cup isn't supported, while the primer face is supported against the bolt face or firing pin bushing, there is less chance of a failure involving a blown primer.

The 6-1/2 Remington primers never blew out or blanked, and primer pockets remained tight. Because the 7-1/2 BR primers had a heavier cup, the Contender most likely did not initiate ignition as uniformly. The 7-1/2 and 7-1/2 BR primers (both were available then) were originally made with the AR-15 system in mind.

The only other primers I had pin hole were the Federal 205 small rifle. These pin holed in a 6mm PPC using a standard safe load.

In a bolt action rifle the pinhole problem will quickly erode a little ring of pits around the firing pin. While not necessarily a safety concern, it is a cosmetic problem and can result in flame cutting of the firing pin tip, necessitating replacement, or metal plasma and debris entering the bolt causing misfires and other mischief. This should be avoided. It's also a good reason to have the firing pin hole bushed to a smaller diameter, which supports the primer better regardless of which primer is used. There is little reason to use the 6-1/2 primer in a bolt action rifle with its greater striker force.

Increasing the size of the flash hole will decrease initial primer force (pressure) and slow the velocity of the flame. Conversely, a smaller hole will slightly increase the initial pressure and increase the velocity. Sort of a venturi effect. However over the scale of dimensions we are talking about this difference is insignificant, and the primer chamber will reach the same pressure as the rest of the case when fired. Interestingly, one commercial ammunition manufacturer uses small rifle primers to load .45-70 heavy loads, with no loss of performance. I used an old lot of Remington 308 brass that was manufactured with small primer pockets to form into 7mm IHMSA for a bolt action unlimited pistol with superb results. So that some times our notions of how primers function is skewed.

[DoubleUp]

mvpal, I don't have the Hornady book, but Accurate lists 28g as max with the 40g v-max. If those are loaded with the 6.5's, I wouldn't want to shoot them. That load shows a pressure of 59,900 psi. It's best to err on the side of caution especially when comparatively new to reloading. Many on here will tell you they find their best accuracy a little below max, but I expect that even those who shoot max loads as I sometimes do, started out lower and worked up to it. Every rifle is different, and sometimes folks get tired of hearing it, but what works in my rifle may not work in yours safely or vice versa.

[Bill K]

Guys you may use what ever primer you want. But for me and my higher intensity calibers, I will stick with the Rem 7.5 or Fed 205 mags. They have the heavier cups/metal and do not pierce. I switched to the Rem 7.5's when I started loading my first 17.223 and just keep using them in the 20VT, 204 Ruger and even the .223. I have no problems and feel very safe and secure. That is my choice and opinion. Bill K

[jrwoitalla]

My Hornady book gives completely different max loads for 748 powder with a 50gr jacketed .224 bullet than my Lee book. I took for granted that the info was accurate and loaded 28 gr with a 50gr V-Max...ended up in the ER to have gunpowder removed from my cheek and bridge of my nose. I was using #400 CCI primers. The look on the rangemasters's face was priceless. Luckily my Tikka is designed to spit those gasses out in such cases. Always, always wears safety glasses!

[Silverfox]

mvpal--Another suggestion I would make when you are trying to find the right load for your rifle is DO NOT increase your powder charge by one whole grain for these small caliber rifles. Try .2 or .3 of a grain at a time.

[mvpal]

Wow. Thanks for all the information everybody. I have been away for a few days. I guess I can consider myself lucky for this little session of learning I had with my TE. I learned allot about reloading especially primers thanks to the article pointed out by Rick. I also found out that my TE seems to spit just about anything I throw at it with half inch group or less at 100. So far anyway.

[jo191145]

My Hornady book gives completely different max loads for 748 powder with a 50gr jacketed .224 bullet than my Lee book. I took for granted that the info was accurate and loaded 28 gr with a 50gr V-Max...ended up in the ER to have gunpowder removed from my cheek and bridge of my nose. I was using #400 CCI primers. The look on the rangemasters's face was priceless. Luckily my Tikka is designed to spit those gasses out in such cases. Always, always wears safety glasses!

Stings like he!! don't it jr? When I was a kid,,,,,,,,,,, never mind that entire story. Burnt powder blown into the skin on my fingers. Stung for weeks. Very valuable lesson.
Glad you made it out OK.
I like the solid rear bolt on Savages. I'm sure others incorporate the same feature.
The guy I mentioned before won't pull a trigger on a Remington. What good is "three rings of steel" if everything they contain is aimed right at your eye through an open bolt?