Help...204 issues

[tonyb]

Hello all, I have a problem, my ruger m 77 predator is giving me the willies, let me explain....its been a tempramental rifle since new, would shoot the eye out of a bird flying one moment then couldnt hit a barn door with it the next, all of a sudden it would be 3 inches low or left or right or everything so adjust scope and get it spot on again, so i thought , after 12 months i figured the scope was a heap of crap (6 - 20 x 50 redfield illuminator ) so i stuck a VX1 3 - 9 x 40 on it that i had on my old 204 (M77 sporter) , well ...sighting it in with the leupold was looking good , bullets were going where they should, after about 6 sighting in shots i fired a 3 shot group, was about half inch ....yeah great i fixed it , thinking i would go and order a nice 6 - 20 x 56 VX3L or something and all my previous problems would be fixed, well not so, I fired another 3 shot group because i liked the first one so much and guess what....3 inches high and 3 inches to the right, so i have come to the conclusion the barrell is fouling after those 12 shots, i thought stuff it... i just wont ever clean the barrell again and it will be good, now, those high and right shots actually grouped better than the previous dead on ones, 3 shots in a quarter inch, anyway, i re-adjusted the scope and back on target it was, at this point i had 17 shots, on account that i was out the bush i figured i go hunting while i was there , well you guessed it ,,couldnt hit a dammed thing,
Rifle is in the gun safe ready to trade in on something else , I love the 204 round but i cant put up with that, my loads are near surgically precision loaded, ( trying to sort it out ) , its not the scope, barrell has been glass bedded and floated, trigger at one pound e.c.t. e.c.t. Tried just about every different projectile for the 204 , heaps of different powder, and so forth, the current load is 32 VMAX , REM brass , CCI br primers and 28.5 grns. 2206H ADI powder...... Do i need a new barrell ? Do i need a better quality 204 ? Do i need a different calibre rifle for hunting ? Is this just a problem with all 204`s.

Any help will be appreciated
cheers.

[cubdad67]

Tonyb,
Is the barrel free floted? I know I had he same issue with my .270 win and .300 win mag. They were not floted. once I did flot them I could shoot 40 rounds back to back and the rounds would not move. Just one idea.

Darius

[tonyb]

yes .....glass bedded and floated

[cubdad67]

Well then I do not have anythig else that might help you. Good luck in getting it to shoot like it should.

Darius

[jrwoitalla]

Methinks something is rotten in Oz(with your gun). I hear Tikka sells quite a few arms in your neck of the woods, so instead of driving yourself absolutely batpoop crazy trying to figure out what's wrong with the gun you have and flushing good money down the terlit trying this and that , consider getting a new Tikka in 204. Meanwhile, take the old gun to a reliable gunsmith, perhaps he can hammer out your problem. If he does, then you'll have two shooters. If not, maybe you could have it re-chambered in some other varmint caliber.

[tonyb]

Hi jrwoitalla, you are correct about the Tikka, now what started me off in trying to find out the problem with my rifle was.....wait for it .........my mate just bought a Tikka T3 hunter in 204....threw (literally) a cheap redfield 4-12x40 on it , sighted it in (3 shots ) and we went shooting with it all afternoon and half the night ...now i couldnt get over how hassle free the whole new rifle thing was, busting heads all night (animals ) pin point accurate, light to carry , reasnoble trigger pull for out of the box, all this using factory loads, the Tikka was soooooo hassle free, thats what started me off, you know...here`s me stuffing around reloading trying to get good groups, spent about 400 bucks on bedding and trigger and still got a heap of crap ! But i am wondering if the Tikka will suffer from fouling problems in the future ? Maybe the quality of the barrell is superior in the first instance therefore eliminating fouling problems ????? I dunno, you know ... i am ready to go buy a Tikka or Sako in a contempory calibre like a 22-250 or 223 , something that has been proven over the years,

[Pmoper]

Me thinks it is one of 2 areas to check.....#1....something is rubbing on the barrel or your front support is not tight.....OR...something is loose in the scope area...mount, rings ect....I wouldn't think it was the barrel per se as even though it is walking it still groups well.....Have a competent gun smith take a good look at it....Good luck.......Paul

[jrwoitalla]

Not sure what you mean by fouling barrels. I've got a Tikka in 223cal that has launched well over a couple thousand rounds by now and still shoots as good as new. They are hard to find here in the US in 204, wish I had one. They are trusty workhorses. If you get one, you'll most certainly get years of great shooting out of it.

[Sth Oz Dan]

I'm fairly new to the shooting and reloading scene, and sounds like you've got plenty of experience. But I've got a Ruger M77 Hawkeye and had very similar issues.
Did your gunsmith tell you it's free floating, or have you checked it yourself? Mine was touching the left fore end of the stock, and once I shaved a little off the stock, I had a lot more consistency in POI.
I still haven't found an accurate load, but I'm enjoying the testing process, and factory 39BKs have shot well so they're next on the list.
Apparently the sequence for tightening action screws is pretty important too - front one 1st (the angled one) pulls action nice and tight into stock at a recommended 90"lb - much tighter than other brands, then the other 2 together - alternating at about 1/4-1/2 a turn at a time.
As mentioned by others, the next most obvious issue would be a loose scope mount.

Odd that it is accurate from one group to the next though.

Can't wait until I need a new 204. My brother just bought a Tikka T3 Stainless Hunter 22-250, and she shoots straight, right outta the box. Mmmmm - Sako quality for just over a grand. probably same price as genuine Sako in the states

[Joe O]

Sounds like a gun problem rather than a ammo problem.Carefully check the bedding and freefloating.Some barrels just like to shoot better dirty.After shoouing 29 rounds and 4 groups with precision prepared,fireformd ammo,I shot two groups with ammo that was virgin brass fireforming loads,with the first 5 shot group @ .344.
That was a surprise,as the previous groups were no better tha 4s-7s.So with 5 rounds left I shot the group into .142 with a called flyer on the 4th shot,opening it up to
.701.So 39 rounds with the last 5 shooting the best,and for loads that needed fireforming.This was a 20AB ,32gr Nosler Blitz W/14.2gr of IMR 4227,seated jammed.I'm sure you'll get it worked out.Good Luck.

[Bill K]

In my mind it has to be somewhere in the scope/rings/base area/ Some thing is not staying tight. And/or your barrel is touching when it heats, not completly free floating. Bill K

[Ol` Joe]

The others gave good ideas about what to look for, but I`d add a small crack in the bedding area of the stock.
I had a sauer develope a very small crack in the tang area that acted similar to what you are seeing. One minute it shot 1/2" the next it jump POI a little or opened up to 1.-2" groups. Sometimes both.

[Darkker]

TonyB,

Yes it is a problem with the 204, any small caliber gun really.
What you describe is EXACTLY what mine did; shoot-then no shoot.

It actually was Sierra that set me on the right track. Even though I cleaned regularly, the problem is "Hard Carbon". It can happen in anything, but is particularly troublesome in sub-22 cals, shooting extruded powder.
What they recomended and worked, was to get some JB Bore Paste, and scrub the living crap out of it. What I found when I did this was tiny flecks of, what looked like flat ball powder. This is the "hard Carbon" they spoke of. Took a while(10 strokes at least) to start chunking it off.
Was told to run a snake and something(I use wd-40) down the pipe every 20 rounds to combat the build-up. That heavy cleaning session fixed my issue.

[tonyb]

Hello Darkker, thanks for the advice, I was actually thinking of bore paste but i sorta had enough of stuffing around with it , BUT, you said that yours did exactly the same thing so i will give it a try , there is NO doubt about it in my mind that it is a barrell fouling problem, bedding,floating,scope, mounts e.c.t. e.c.t. are spot on, I will get some paste and give it a go, nothing to loose.....everything to gain...thanks...

[Bill K]

Be sure and let us know what you do find.. It is interesting to know the final outcome on some of the problems we have and then how it was solved. Bill K