starting load? want to try 39 SBK x H335

[mike204]

Hey Guys--

Figured you could help me out. I'm putting together some first-time-out starting loads for my .204. I'm new to reloading. I'd like to use the SBK 39gr pills with the H335 powder that the guy at the store sold me. I've been doing some reading, looks like these are good components.

The problem I'm running into is that Sierra doesn't have a listed load for this powder. Can I use standard 40gr Vmax load data as a starting point for these 39gr bullets? (For reference, I'm using the 49th Lyman manual, which notes 25.2gr H335 for 40gr VMax starting load)

Thanks for your advice!

[Glen]

That is what I had to use when they 1st came out. I started .2grs under their starting load & went up.2grs each time from there.

[futuretrades]

I have to agree with Glen. After all you are only 1 full grain different between these 2 bullets. Remember to keep a sharp eye out for any over pressure problems as you increase and even decrease powder charges. Keep in mind that even under charge loads can cause problems. Be safe, and enjoy your project.

[788k]

I've used 25 to 27gr. of H335. Best results 26.2

[mike204]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I've started loading rounds from the Lyman #49 manual data for 40gr vmax bullets, starting at base and on up to max, in .2 grain increments. I figure this will total (80) rounds total, with (2) 5-shot groups at each of the (8) steps in powder charge. Complicated, eh?

It'll be a while before I can do any shooting here in the upper midwest, so I've got time to finish this loading sequence, and possibly start on a similar set of trial loads for the 26gr varmint grenades, 32gr vmaxes, or maybe even a different rifle all together. Good and bad...plenty of time to take time and load carefully, but a long time before I get to test them out and adjust

Been a good winter, and a great Christmas, but I'm already gearing up for spring

[mike204]

UH OH!

I made up (4) dummy rounds (prepped brass w/bullet, no powder or primer)...and (3) of these chamber VERY hard in the rifle. They feed OK, and the OAL is correct (2.25" or shorter), but the bolt handle turns VERY hard.

I tried painting the cases with a sharpie marker, to look for possible contact areas...but am not getting a ton of satisfaction here.

Anything common or obvious I should be looking for here? I trimmed these cases (once fireds) and while I did not trim the neck thickness, should I have to? Help!

[Glen]

Did you mark the whole case or just the neck & shoulder? Almost sounds like the cases need FL sized if this brass wasn't fired in your chamber before.

[mike204]

I marked just the rim and the shoulder. All cases were FL sized. The Lyman T-Mag press was set to "cam over" on the FL sizing die

[mike204]

I think you may have found the culprit...

I took the firing pin and firing pin spring out of the bolt housing, so that I could cycle rounds more freely, and more-safely test the cycling of my reloads vs. new factory rounds.

The new factory loads fell through the chamber/bolt turning process with ease, and absolutely no tension at the bolt handle (firing pin spring removed). Easy. They work fine.

The reloads almost all work "tight", with some resistance felt at the bolt handle. Some more than others, but all with some resistance felt. I tried working the bolt handle 25 times on the same round, and did this a couple times...what I found was a slight light-colored polishing line, about half way around the base of the body of the brass, about 5mm up from the extractor groove, and perhaps slightly at an angle (off-parallel with the base of the cartridge), though I could be imagining that last bit.

I see no rifling marks on the bullet jackets themselves, suggesting that I'm running out into the lands, etc. I tried measuring critical dimensions on factory vs. reload with my digital caliper, but it goes only to hundredths of an inch, and I found width measurements at the shoulder and base to be the same as a result.

It appears, to me, that the factory brass is well within tolerances, easily dropping into the chamber under a turned bolt, and the reloads fit more-tightly. Is my FL die (RCBS) at fault, or should I try turning it down on the press another quarter turn to get a little additional sizing out of it? Is this an intentional design of the dies, or does it sound like my press setup is off.

Like a fool, I'd gone and loaded 50+ rounds, so these are certainly trying times around the reloading shack...

better off to pull all the bullets and powder and start from scratch, or is a tight bolt 'OK' to shoot with?

Thanks again guys...you guys have already been a big help...bet you didn't think I'd have so many questions!

*For the record--I did try cleaning the chamber with a bronze brush/solvent patches chucked into a slow/medium-speed drill.

[Jim White]

-I would suggest that you buy a Wilson case gage for all of your calibers. They're available from Midway, Sinclair, Dillon and so on. The link is from L.E. Wilson who produces them. Essentially, it provides a visual indication if your cases are properly sized along with the OAL.

http://www.lewilson.com/products.html

-Another tool I would buy is a Kenetic bullet puller if you don't already have one. I stuff those foam type ear plugs inside mine to prevent bullet deforming when I have to unload some.

-And last, I'd procure a stuck case remover. I've only had to use mine a couple of times in 20 years but it's a nice tool when it's needed.

-I also use load data for 39SMK from H VMAX data. The bearing surface of the two is very similiar.

HTH,

[mike204]

these look like good suggestions, but the Wilson gauge doesn't mention case diameter, just length, which I feel comfortable with...is adjusting my FL die an option? I set it up per instructions, as best I could, is it possible it just needs to be turned-in a little more to get a hair "more" sizing?

[futuretrades]

I've experienced the same thing with some of my 270 loads. I cured the problem by screwing down the fl die. I didn't see any mention of press you are using. some need to "cam over", and some will not cam over like my lee press. as far as I know, you cannot turn the die down too far, but, the best way to adjust your fl die is to run the press handle all the way down, and then screw the fl die in until it touches the shell holder good and solid, and then, run the press handle all the way up. at this time screw the die down 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Now you can run an unloaded case thru the press. after sizing the brass, run it thru your rifle. If sized right, the bolt should cycle with no resistance. This is one of the easiest ways to check if your loading procedures are correct.

[Jim White]

Mike...if your case is undersized it will be evident with the Wilson case gage. Also, if your case is oversized it will show that too.

WRT "futuretrades" post. What he wrote is what I have had to do in some instances. If I screwed my size die down until it touched the shell holder and then backed it off 1/4 turn (or so) odds are it wouldn't chamber in my rifle(s) either. If you screw the die down until it makes contact and then screw down some a little more (1/4 to 1/2 turn or so...) and it worked, I would be OK with that. However, the potential downside is it could be a tad hard (depending on how far down you have screwed it) on some of the pins for the press. That is why I won't go beyond 1/2 turn further down.

If that still didn't work I would one of two things:

1. If a lathe is available, take some material off the shell holder or get a set of Redding off-set shell holders. Those are the only other ways (in addition to the above) I know of, off-the-cuff, to get the shell holder further into the sizing die. In fact I would just get the shell holders from Redding because they are hardened. Taking material off of a shell holder may mess with the hardening "plus" it reduces the material and probably the strength of that portion of the shell holder that grasp the case head thus breaking the shell holder and possibly the case head too. If that were to break there goes the shell holder and if it broke the case head rim, the size die is OOC until a stuck case removing tool is procured.

With respect to oversizing; "Oversizing (squeezing the brass down too much) can creating an "excessive" headspace situation. If a measuring device isn't in the works, you would need something to prevent oversizing. Excessive headspace isn't a good thing for obvious reasons plus, it significantly reduces the life of the brass. Maybe only once-fired, if it's too bad . If you have a 308/30.06/223 I would invest in a broken case extractor. I need one for 204 & 6mm myself.
Creating a little more

[OldTurtle]

Rather than a kinetic bullet puller, I would strongly suggest a Hornady lever bullet puller... I've broken one of my kinetic pullers trying to separate rifle cartridges...the Hornady is a lot less stressful and IMO, faster...It just requires the proper insert for the caliber..http://www.hornady.com/store/Cam-Lock-B ... er-1-Each/

Sounds like you need to set your die down another 1/8-1/4 turn to bump your shoulder back just a little... I set my dies up initially using a factory round and gently lowering the die, with the de-capping pin and shaft removed, to where it just fits the cartridge, and then doing further adjusting it from there...

Hodgon should give you some load specs for the powder,,, I've found that dropping my initial powder charge one full grain from the published max load and working up in .1gr increments, my most accurate loads will usually fall between .4 and .7 gr below max....It's easier on my brass, gives excellent consistent accuracy and allows plenty of pressure room in the event I choose to play with the seating depth for tweaking...I usually create ten rounds of each load, shoot five to determine the best group and then use the additional five for verification....The rest, I will pull the bullets and reload to the 'best' group specs...and possibly use them for tweaking the seating depth...

[Rick in Oregon]

As for the original topic, the latest Hodgdon 2011 Manual does not list the 39gr SBK, but it brackets it with two other bullets:

204 Ruger
Hornady Case, 24" bbl, 12 twist, Primer: Fed 205M

35gr Berger
H335 Start: 25.5 3665 fps / Max: 27.5 3915 fps

40gr V-Max
H335 Start: 25.0 3508 fps / Max 26.8 3738 fps

No OAL listed, and that tells me it's SAMMI standard for the cartridge.

Hope that helps a tad.