.204 Ackley Improved?

[Schrutester]

I have been researching the .223 AI quite a bit lately, and then I started wondering if it would be possible to Ackleyize the .204?

Is this a dumb question? Or is it possible?

What do you think?

[YoteSmoker]

It already is. The 204R case is a necked down 222 Rem Mag necked down to 204 caliber with an improved shoulder. Just shoot it and enjoy! The work's already been done for you.

[Rick in Oregon]

Yotesmoker is spot-on. Most, if not all Ackley Improved cartridges utilize a 40 degree shoulder. The 204 Ruger at 35 degrees is a star performer as-is, and no practical gain would be realized by increasing the shoulder angle another 5 degrees....not worth the price of a custom reamer. If it was, I'd be all over it, as I shoot many Ackley Improved calibers, but the 204 will not be one of them, as it comes "pre-Ackleyized" right from the factory.

By the way, as you mentioned the 223AI, I'll add that I shoot this caliber, and like a couple of others here, will attest to it's effectiveness in the field.....a caliber truly worthy of going to the trouble to load for. If you want a star Ackley Improved caliber, rework one of your 223's that's now gathering dust in the safe due to your 204R getting all the attention these days. You'll never look back.

[Schrutester]

[/quote] By the way, as you mentioned the 223AI, I'll add that I shoot this caliber, and like a couple of others here, will attest to it's effectiveness in the field.....a caliber truly worthy of going to the trouble to load for. If you want a star Ackley Improved caliber, rework one of your 223's that's now gathering dust in the safe due to your 204R getting all the attention these days. You'll never look back. [/quote]

Rick in Oregon,

I have to admit that I have tried to read all of your previous posts pertaining to the 223 AI, and have found them very helpful.

In one post you mentioned that - considering you already have an accurate .204 - you would build a fast twist 1 in 9 .204, shooting 50 gr. Bergers as opposed to building a .223 AI.

I am yet to buy the article you mentioned in Small Caliber News discussing the 1 in 9 .204.

I have not found any ballistics on the 50 gr. Bergers out of a .204, but I take it from your statement that they must shoot faster than the "Blue Meanies" at 3680 out of your 223 AI? Or probably flatter?

Since I am looking to use this rifle as a dedicated bench/varmint killer, your suggestion of the 1 in 9 .204 was intriguing.

If you don't mind, could you explain a little more why you would build the one over the other?

Thanks.

[Silverfox]

Rick in Oregon--You stated,

The 204 Ruger at 35 degrees is a star performer as-is, and no practical gain would be realized by increasing the shoulder angle another 5 degrees....not worth the price of a custom reamer.

Not trying to be a wise-guy, but every reamer drawing I have ever seen for the .204 Ruger caliber shows the shoulder has a 30º angle, NOT a 35º like you stated. Are all of the drawings I have seen in error or did you make a little boo boo on the angle?

If the .204 Ruger shoulder is only 30º and not 35º, would there be any reason/advantage to doing a wildcat .204 Ruger AI with a 40º shoulder? I am not interested in doing it, but the original poster might like to know (I'm curious too).

[Rick in Oregon]

OhmyGod!....what was I typing? 30 degrees IS correct, and I should be flogged! Can't explain the error, must be the meds, just a mistake to be sure. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

If someone WAS to wildcat the 204R case, because of the increased case capacity, somewhere around 1.5% I'd guess, there WOULD be a very slight boost in velocity, but we all know the rule that states it would be very, very small, and at least to me, not worth the overall effort when you consider the reamer cost, fitting and chambering fees also. Eventually though, somebody somewhere will built one though, they always do. Ya got me though, Silverfox.....that's what I get for using a CRS brain to bring up something that should have been looked up properly (or at least remembered correctly!)

Schrutester: The reasons behind that statement were arrived at after reading the piece by Bill Craig in SCN when he built his 9 twist 204 for the 50 grainers. The basis for the change from the 223AI is due to the extremely high BC of the 50 grain .204 bullets compared to the .224" offerings in the same weight range. The article lists many loads, and the velocities range from 3,150 fps with 4064, to 3,646 fps using RL-15, which printed a .047" group in the authors rifle, a M700 switch barrel rig with both a Shilen 223AI barrel, and the 9 twist 204R barrel.

The 50 grain .204" bullets will shoot at long range much more effectively than any 223AI shooting .224" 50 grain bullets. I've hammered prairie dog towns with my 223AI and 50's for ten years, but for the same task now, I'd prefer either my 11 twist 204, or even my 12 twist 204, as they both just shoot flatter than the 223AI. They are both excellent calibers, but my preference runs to the .204 side of things these days. (But 223 brass will always be much cheaper and easier to find if that matters........)

If Todd Kindler has his way with the bullet makers, we'll soon see more .204 bullets in 50gr, and even 55 and 60 grain VLD's for very fast twist rifles for use at 1,000 yards. Stay tuned, I'll be speaking with him next week to see if he's made any progress in that regard.

[Cadeuses]

OhmyGod!....what was I typing? 30 degrees IS correct, and I should be flogged! Can't explain the error, must be the meds, just a mistake to be sure. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Alrighty then.... floggings to begin until there is improvement in moral and attention to detail. Silverfox... flail away!

Just kidding Rick... I'm sure you have enough scars already.

[Silverfox]

You won't see me flogging anyone for a tiny error. I'd be in pretty tough shape if I received a flogging for every little error I made on these boards. I just try to point out those types of mistakes in a gentle manner. I hope I didn't get anyone's shorts in a wad.

[Rick in Oregon]

SF: No wadding of the shorts to be sure, and no worries, mate. Always glad when someone points out a blunder so the next time around, the brain will be in gear prior to hitting "submit".

Cadeuses: Scars indeed....this last episode left me with one about a foot long, from the "nether region" right up to the brisket. About like a good field dressing would yield. Personally, I'd rather have had the flogging than what I went through in June.....not sure what was worse, the "episode" and operation, or missing the last grand Rat Rodeo of the season. I'm telling myself to get over it, as I don't have to reload a single case, and am all ready for next spring with all the 204 ammo I didn't shoot......

[Glen]

and am all ready for next spring with all the 204 ammo I didn't shoot......

I would rather you miss one rodeo than however many the Lord has planned for you in your future Rick.

[tuck2]

Why a AI a 223 Remington when a person has a 22-250 Rem ? I have two 223 Rem varmint rifles but this year I have ben useing a 204 Ruger and 17 Fireball for prairie dog shooting.

[Rick in Oregon]

Tuck: The 223AI uses much less powder, is more efficient, and almost reaches the 22-250 factory velocities with 40's that the 250 does with 50's. The 223AI also heats up MUCH less, so you can shoot more in a rodent colony without frying the barrel. I gave up using my 22-250's for the type of shooting we do here and on prairie dogs for that exact reason.

If you look in the loading manuals, you'll see that the 223AI will use about 20% less powder for the same velocity with both 40gr and 50gr bullets as the 22-250 does. The 22-250 shines with the 55's though, at least in the standard 14 twist barrels they usually have, giving better longer range performance by virtue of the higher BC's the 55gr bullets have over the lighter offerings. But as most rodent shooting usually takes place inside of 450 yards, the 22-250 really offers no real advantage for this type of shooting, and will suffer barrel burnout much sooner than any 222-based cartridge under the same conditions.

The 22-250 is an excellent cartridge on it's own, but the 222-family of cartridges fills the bill much better for high volume shooting, the family that also has the 204 as it's newest member, and now my personal favorite.

[Glen]

Very good post again RIO. I passed up a proven 223AI barrel for a Savage at a very good price last year too.