Can't get the Carbon out of my barrel !

[operationsnsc]

Got new gun (carbon steel barrel). Have fired 7 rounds through it. It does not matter how many times I clean it, everytime I run the brush back thru it and follow with a wet patch, patch comes out dark black, just like you've rubbed a piece of coal with the patch.
Cleaning process;
1. Wet patch with solvent (Barnes CR-10)
2. Dry patch
3. Repeat dry patch until it comes out white or almost 100% white.
4. Brush back and forth total of 10 times. Let brush soak in alcohol or solvent to clean it.
5. Wet patch with solvent (black as coal)
6. Go to step 1 or 2.
The copper (which I can eyeball in the end of the barrel at the beggining of the process) eventually disappears, so the copper is coming out. But everytime that brush is used its just pure coal dust for at least one patch following. I've done it long enough and also in one other gun before (stailess steel barrel) that I know it's not going to stop! HELP! I will say that accuracy still can be top notch (1/2 MOA or better). I'll also let the Barnes soak for 15 minutes after running it thru and this will eliminate the need for a brush as far as the COPPER is concerned. If I am trying to remove COPPER with a BRUSH, I sure won't use a bronze brush because solvent doesn't agree with it - it just adds to the green coloration of the patch and you can't ever be sure the copper's gone from the barrel. Nylon brushes are the trick to that problem.

[skipper]

Try this with Hoppes #9 bore cleaner.

1 Wet Patch(very wet)
2 Dip tight fitting bronze brush in Hoppes and run it through the bore, all the way out of the muzzle and then pull it back out of the chamber.
3 Repeat # 2 five times.
4 Dry patch

Repeat 1-4 until all the carbon comes out and then switch to a copper remover like CR-10.

If it's really stubborn, you might need to let it soak overnight. I've never had any luck with getting carbon out of a heavily fouled barrel with CR-10. You have to get the carbon first, then go after the copper.

[jo191145]

You do realize that bronze brush holds carbon fouling on it right. If you do not thoroughly flush/clean the brush it will reapply carbon inside the bore. Maybe thats what your seeing. Soaking might not be enough.
Personally I do not clean my brushes. Too much work. Just need to realize the new carbon might not be from the bore but from the dirty brush.
If you have a new brush try running that through the tube. Then you'll know where the foulings coming from.

What type powder we're those seven rds?

[WHISTLEPIG]

There are some excellent products that are designed to remove carbon in the automotive world. Mercury Power Tune works great for me. It does not say "gun" on it so it is very cost effective. Fowling is deposited in layers in a rifle barrel. All the carbon is not on top of all the copper. It may take several cycles of cleaning to remove all the layers. Read the articles on 6mm benchrest on cleaning and see what some of the best shooters say about it. Another good source is the recommendations of the barrel manufactures. There is a lot of debate on the cleaning proceedure. One guy does this and uses that and his dad always used this so it is the best ect. I have changed my cleaning routine several times based on the only way you can determine if a barrel is truely clean and that is a bore scope.

[Vartarg]

My oversimplified $.02 worth: there are two problems.....carbon and copper, and one cleaning product doesn't do both. I've used Barnes CR10 for copper, but never considered it as good for carbon. For carbon I'm using 2/3 Butch's Bore Shine and 1/3 Kroil. For copper I haven't found anything better than Bore Tech Eliminator....though I've got a shelf full of Barnes, Hoppe's copper cleaner, Sweets, Montana Extreme, etc.etc.

Given your experience, I"d be tempted to use some JB on a brush, and then patch it out well with a carbon solvent.....

Good luck, and keep usinformed.
George

[Rick in Oregon]

Ops: Barnes CR-10 is primarily/only a copper removing solvent. You need to also use a good carbon remover. I normally use Shooters Choice for that task, along with CR-10, and all my barrels, both factory and custom are all free of both carbon and copper.

I normally remove the carbon first with bronze brushes and a good scrubbing, then treat the barrel for copper, using nylon brushes, patch wet, then patch dry for each regimin. This has worked for extended colony rodent shooting for many years, so it must work properly. You are basically doing a good cleaning job now, just add the other critical chemical to your mix, and you should be in good shape.

[operationsnsc]

Advice taken, thanks much.

[skb2706]

Thats an awful lot of cleaning for 7 shots. I'd be inclined to shoot more and clean less. But I don't believe in the whole "barrel breakin" conspiracy theory anyway. Rick IO gave you good advise about products.

I once read a dissertation from a well known barrel maker that stated "far more barrels are ruined by improper or excessive cleaning than any other reason". I believe that.

[WrzWaldo]

In regards to what WHISTLEPIG said. GM has a good one as well, it's called TEC (Top End Cleaner). Another that comes to mind is Seafoam.

[WrzWaldo]

Topics merged.

[OldTurtle]

One other thing not mentioned, as well as cleaning your brush, wipe down the full length of the rod each time you switch patches or brushes. Sometimes the rod will pick up dirty solvent from one pass and re-deposit it on the next pass.

As it's a new barrel, I agree that it seems to be an excessive amount of carbon for seven shots...

[acloco]

Your brush, the chemical being used, and the barrel are the culprits. Between the three, add in the cleaning action, at least two of them are having a chemcial reaction.

Remove one of the three items and try again. (don't cheat by removing the barrel from the cleaning process!).

[Yotecallr]

Use either Kroil and let it soak or Slip 2000 choke cleaner. Kroil soaking overnight and a nylon brush will amaze you.

[Rick in Oregon]

Yotecallr brought up a good point; I mix Kroil at 30% to 70% Shooters Choice for my carbon cleaning mixture. This was passed to me by a successful BR shooter quite a few years ago. I've used it since with excellent results.

The Kroil really soaks down into the pores of the steel to loosen up the carbon and primer residue like nothing else I've ever seen. I just realized I'd not mentioned it, thought I would for this thread. It really works.

[WrzWaldo]

My mix is much like RIO's. That mix will crawl under copper deposits as well!!!

I made up some silicon muzzle plugs so I could just fill the bore with the mix and let it sit. Folks are pretty amazed to see what dumps out of the bore after a good soak!

WW