Question about brass

[Tommy Longspurs]

How many times can you reload a casing before it becomes "worn out"? Had a guy tell me i could only use each casing 3 times before i needed to replace them.

[acloco]

Depends on the caliber, shape of the cartridge, how hot you load, and how your equipment is set.

[skipper]

I have cases that have been loaded as many as ten times. As long as there are no signs of case head separation and the primer pockets are still tight they can last a lot longer than three loadings.

[Glen]

When all the brass was avaiable was from factory rds I had some that last only 3-4 firings. The newer stuff a year later was much much better & I have some cases with 7 firings on them. HTH

[Ryan S Albright]

The necks on the 204 get case hardens after so many firings this is when you need to anneal the necks and shoulders to soften the brass again for reloading. The brass gets hardened around the neck which makes it springy after about 4 to 10 firings you have to judge on this one. I had heard about annealing cases for years but never atempted it on my own but some one on this forum gave me the info on how to do it. For a little time spent on annealing you can get several more reloading out of a case. Some feel that it improves consistency and accuracy. I can say it hasn't hurt mine one bit. I put my fired cases in a 10mm deep set socket attached to a cordless drill and in the dark spin them in front of a propane tourch for a eight count then drop them in a pan to cool. This shown in an artical that was sent to me on this forum. Right now I can't send it to you because my kid has change out computers on me. But in a few days things will be back to normal. If you ask the question on how to anneal cases I am sure some one will come to your aid.

[Tommy Longspurs]

Is it better, as far as quality, to buy new brass to reload or use the factory loads to accumulate brass?

[Rick in Oregon]

TLS: That really does not matter; brass is brass. The only small advantage factory loaded ammunition offers is that after shooting it, it's then fireformed for your personal chamber, and needs only neck sizing for the reloaded case ( plus primer pocket reaming, flash hole deburring, trimming if necessary, chamfer/bevel the case mouth.....only if you're after peak accuracy, maybe even sorting by weight as some do...... )

I've got rifles that I've used for 25+ varmint seasons that have never fired a round of factory ammunition. I personally prefer to buy bulk brass and do all the necessary machine work on it prior to it ever seeing the inside of one of my chambers.

On brass life: Back in the late '70's, I had a nice Sako Vixen 222 Rem Mag that in a weak moment in the early '80's, I rechambered to .223 Rem. I reformed a bunch of 222 Mag brass to .223 for it, and I'm still shooting that 100 rounds of reformed brass in three of my 223's. It's been annealed only once, and the cases get shot once per year, so if you do the math, it shows that brass cases can last a very long time if you don't hotrod them too much, and care for them properly during the reloading process.

[Silverfox]

Is it better, as far as quality, to buy new brass to reload or use the factory loads to accumulate brass?

Personally, I like to buy large quantities of brass from the same lot number if possible. You can see the lot numbers on the bags of bulk brass and try to get the same lot number that way. If you buy factory loads, you can watch for the lot # on the boxes and try to get the same lot # on all of them. I just feel that the consistency from one casing to the next might be better if you have brass from the same lot number. I have no on paper shooting proof of that theory, but that's my opinion on the subject. From experience, however, I do know that various properties of brass from different lots can vary widely from lot-to-lot.

Case in point: When I purchased my Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger back in the first week of June 2004, I also purchased 15 boxes of 32 gr. V-Max Hornady factory ammo (at that time there were no reloading components available, so it was factory ammo or no ammo). Ten of those boxes were in one case and were from Lot #3040148. The other five boxes were from a different lot with Lot #3040126 on them. The casings from Lot #3040126 had primer pockets that were so small in diameter that my primer pocket uniformer tool would not fit into the pocket!!! A year or so later, I received two boxes of 40 gr. V-Max factory casings from a fellow and they had tight primer pockets too. The lot # on those was #3040334. They all shoot just fine, I just can't uniform the primer pocket on some of them. I do keep them separate, however. Some of these casings have been fired 7 and 8 times and I have only had two casings that had split necks.

The neck on the Savage 12VLP is not what you'd call a tight neck, so there is a lot of "work" being done on the casing necks when I neck size them. I think I'll crank up my Ken Light 1000 case anealing machine and begin annealing some of these casing necks that have been fired 5 or more times. I use the Hornady casings for my 35 gr. FBHP Berger coyote load and my WW casings for the 39 gr. Sierra and 40 gr. Nosler BT loads. I only have about 1,800 of the WW casings. The 39 gr. and 40 gr. bullets are what I use on colony rodents, so I shoot a lot more of those bullets than I do the 35 gr. Berger coyote loads.

I saved a full box of unfired 32 gr. V-Max Hornady factory loads because the design on the box is totally different than the other boxes of .204 Ruger factory loads I have seen since 2004. The "unique" box is on top and has a totally different masthead above the the Hornady AMMUNITION wording and has FIRST PRODUCTION RUN under the Ruger symbol and the wording 204 RUGER. While it may not be real rare, this is the first time I have gotten in on using a brand new caliber and been able to purchase "First Production Run" ammo. I have to add that the .204 Ruger is a GREAT CALIBER to boot!!!



[Edited for spelling ]

[msphotog]

In my experiance Hornady brass is the least consistant brass I've used. The weight is all over the place(as much as 2-1/2 grains different), and the flash holes are really hard to ream. Then, about 6 months ago, I bought some Norma brass, and what a difference!
The flash holes do not need to be reamed, the primer pockets need very little uniforming, and the weight of 100 cases is within a grain. Also, the from the factory, the cases were exactly 1.840" give or take .001"
Finally, my groups went from 1/2"-3/4" at 100yds., to my last two groups that were .290", and .298"!
BTW, 24.5gr RE10-X, 40gr Berger, naked, and my VLS is sporting a Shillen 28" SS Match barrel, 1 in 12", PTG SAAMI spec reamer
I am also thinking that Nosler brass is as consistant, or more so. Guaranteed to within .0005".
I also have reloaded the first 50 rounds about 10-12 times, and just a few days ago had to bump the shoulders back. Otherwise, I just f/L size the first time and neck size until I have to bump.
Mark S.

[cshooter]

I have always full length resized my cases because neck sizeing only gives me cases that are hard to extract or with older more fired cases - head separation, especially in thin walled cases like the 22 Hornet. With my Hornet I only keep cases 3 shots then pitch them rather than have a case head stuck up in the chamber in the middle of a hunt. My 223 and 270 are'nt that bad, but I like to know for sure the shell is going to work smoothly through the rifle when I need it to, so I full resize, trim, 5- 7 times, then I disgard them . Besides within reasonable hunting range, say 250 -300 yrds on game bigger than a feral cat, most brass full length sized will give plenty of accuracy to get the bullet where it needs to be. I know alot of people necksize, trim neck thickness, and so on, but you really don't need it unless you are benchrest competeing.

[rayfromtx]

Benchrest competitors full length resize every time they shoot. Most have dies matched to their chambers such that resizing only causes a .0005 change in each dimension. As a result it is possible to shoot one of those cases more than 50 times. Many will discard them after 15 rounds to assure consistent neck tension. If not it is possible to shoot out a barrel with 20-30 pcs of brass. Benchrest competitors also do not do many of the things that are discussed on this site and others in their quest for accuracy. Most don't clean their brass or weigh it. They also don't weigh their bullets or trickle their charges but I digress.

With the chambers that most of us use it's a different story. Many reloaders are setting back their shoulders and compressing their case walls by more than .005. That's an order of magnitude more movement. Neck sizing can be similar in movement. The result is dramatically greater amounts of work hardening that leads to brittleness and splitting. The problem I have with my 204 is that I shoot a warm load and after 5 firings my primer pockets are very loose. I am using WW brass and I've been very dissatisfied with it. It was cheap though and I guess that is good when you want to load up 500 rounds. I wouldn't want to pay for 500 Lapuas for a pd gun I guess.

[Rick in Oregon]

Ray: I also have a bunch of WW 204 brass, I neck size only, and shoot a fairly hot load of RL10X, a bit over max in the Sierra manual. My primer pockets are still nice and tight, and my brass seems to be going strong after six firings. It has all been detailed in every way, and considering the cost compared to Norma or Lapua (204 brass some day?), it's not a bad deal.

Have you checked your case head expansion with a good mic compared to a factory round? It sounds like you're exhibiting far too much pressure there, bud, and by doing so, your brass has a very short life. As you are most likely aware, any head expansion over .0005" is excessive. Considering all the work we do to our brass, you may want to do some measuring, as the prairie rat or yote will never know the difference of one or two grains of powder. Just a suggestion......

[rayfromtx]

hi Rick-
I am using 25.5 grains of VV n133. This is a hot load and pushes the 40 grain Bergers at around 3960 fps when temps were around 80 degrees. This is in a 30" polygonal barrel with an 11 twist so it's faster than in shorter barrels with standard rifling.

I hate to think about dropping it down to the next node as it would probably be down a ways on velocity but I measured a fired round against an unfired round and the difference was around .002. at the web. At the head the difference was between .001 and .002. I have to full length size every time or they don't eject easily.

I just loaded up 200 rounds at this charge weight and was about to do 200 more. Hmmm, perhaps I'll try it at a cooler load and see if I can get this kind of accuracy before I load up another batch.

Ray

[acloco]

rayfromtx - with those measurements, believe you are heading for a bad day. Is not the rule of thumb that anything over 0.001" is too much???

[rayfromtx]

hmmm-
now ya'll have me thinking. I'll try some cooler loads, darn it. Thanks, I guess that's why I come here.