!7 Rem.

[kenbrofox]

Not 204 but, Does anyone know of a source for better quality 17 rem brass than what remington sell.The stuff i have has inconsistant diameter primer holes. Same with my 17fb and 221fb brass. Thanks,Ken.

[Rick in Oregon]

Ken, I don't think anybody else makes 17 Rem brass other than R-P. I'm also dealing with 350 pcs of Remington 221FB brass at present; turning it all into 20 Vartarg brass......I know what you mean about primer pockets and burrs the size of a spinich leaf on the flash holes.

[kenbrofox]

Hi Rick, Hope you're well. I too am changing the 221 brass down, only to 19vt. I've also got 17fb brass that changes up to 19 just as easily but i haven't yet measured any necks to compare thicknesses after sizing. Rifle is going for proof testing next Tuesday so i should be up and running by weekend. Regards,Ken.

[Rick in Oregon]

Good luck with the proofing, Ken....I hope it all goes well.

You may need to turn those necks after forming. My 20VT cases will chamber okay after forming, but a clean-up cut on the necks really made a difference in concentricity. All 350 cases cleaned up about 15 - 30% of the neck with turning, so I know it was worth the effort.

Also, our buddy Silverfox here shoots a 17 Remmy.....he may know of some other brand of brass available somewhere......

[kenbrofox]

Not really into neck turning so i will see if she shoots before doing anything else. Thanks again,Ken.

[K22]

I real sure that Remington is the only one who makes 17 Rem. brass. But, it does come in 2 colors.

[Jim White]

I used to like Remington brass but when I was tweaking my 204 brass, deburring the the flash holes was choir within itself. Some pieces had to (gently) chucked into a vice just to complete the task.

[kenbrofox]

Jim,
Same problem here with great chunks to remove out of some cases, a real struggle if you try to hold the case by hand as i do. Thanks,Ken.

[Silverfox]

kenbrofox--Sorry I can't provide another manufacturer besides Remington that makes .17 Rem brass. I can suggest that if you really want superior brass for your .17 Remington that you form your own out of .204 Ruger brass.

I recently bought a Stiller Predator repeater action with a .223 bolt face to build a new .17 Remington rifle and wanted brass of a higher quality than the crap Remington makes. I already had a Redding body die for .17 Remington, but I needed the Redding #1 form die and a trim die for the .17 Remington, so I purchased those--they are not cheap!! I have an Internet buddy who had some special forming dies with various neck sizing bushings that I used too for some of these casings. However, I think if you are careful, you can get by with just the .17 Remington body die, .17 Remington Redding #1 form die and the .17 Remington Redding trim die. Here are the steps I now go through to form Winchester .204 Ruger brass into .17 Remington brass:

Some folks don’t use all the steps I use and I have heard of shooters using just a seating die and a full length die for forming. I tried that method and crushed a lot of casings so they were totally unusable. However, for what it is worth, here are the steps I use to neck .204 Ruger brass down to .17 Remington–NOTE: There is a WW .204 Ruger casing on the left in each of these photos for comparison.

1. Run the brass into my Redding .17 Rem body die (you may be able to skip this step)



2. Run the brass up into my Redding .17 Rem #1 Form Die



3. Run that casing into my Redding .17 Rem Trim Die



4. Trim the brass to a length longer than max SAAMI length—I was trimming it to 1.810" to 1.815", but in the future I will trim the brass to around 1.83" to 1.835", because when I fire formed the brass many of the casings wound up slightly shorter than the trim-to length of 1.786"

5. Run that trimmed brass into my Forster .17 Rem full length sizing die, trim, chamfer, debur and I’m done with the forming process.



6. Remember, this brass seems to be a bit thicker than .17 Remington brass and has a smaller internal volume than .17 Remington brass. Don’t start testing loads anywhere even close to maximum powder charges!!! Don’t ask me how I know!! I would recommend starting a little bit above the minimun or starting load if you form your brass from WW .204 Ruger like I did.

The neck diameter in my chamber .201". I neck turned all of these casings so the neck walls are .0125" thick. That gives me a loaded neck diameter of .197" which gives me .002" of clearnace all the way around the casing neck. Before I neck turned, however, I had to anneal the casings to soften up the brass. The K&M expand iron fit way too tight in the neck and the brass sprang back too much to allow the casing neck to spin freely enough on the mandrel. Once I annealed the casings the expand iron worked fine and the mandrel fit inside the neck just right.

I am extremely happy with my formed casings, but it did take a lot of work. However, I didn't want to build a .17 Remington rifle on that wonderful Stiller Predator action and have to wind up using crappy .17 Remington brass. I think it was well worth all the extra effort to form my own brass.

[kenbrofox]

Silverfox,
Thanks for that detailed explanation and exellent pictures. I just need the #1 die now, unfortunately Sinclairs are out of stock so the jobs on hold for now. I have several hundred 204R brass from Hornady factory ammo, is that stuff worth reforming?
My rifle is just a bog standard Rem700, brand new and unfired. It will get a new Pac-nor if it dosen't shoot.
Thanks again,Ken.

[Jim White]

Silverfox...thanks for the info. I'm in a similar dilemma with my 6mm Remington. I'd really like to get some good brass (Lapua, Norm, RWS) for my 6mm Remington but it seems I have to neck down 7x57 or neck up 5.6x57. Don’t know which is the best way to go (probably down because 7x57 is more available than (5.6x57). Thinking about RWS brass but it's hard to find.

Jim

[Silverfox]

kenbro--I don't mean to steal this thread, but if you don't mind I'd like to put in my 2¢ worth on Jim White's dilemma.

Jim--you'd be taking the neck down in diameter about .032" for the 7x57 brass so you should probably try to take it down in several steps. You may even need to anneal the brass partway through the necking down process, but I'm not sure about that. If you are getting lots of dents and wrinkles in your casings, then I'd say anneal it before going on. The distance from the base of the 6mm Remington casing to the juncture of the neck and shoulder is listed at 1.882" in my Hornady book and that same measurement for the 7x57 brass is listed at 1.866" so it appears you'll have to fire form it to make it fit your 6mm Remington chamber better.

I guess you could try forming a few casings and see how it goes and then decide if it is worth the hassle. More consistent brass is usually a good thing to strive for though. Let us know how it works for you.

[Jim White]

kenbro--I don't mean to steal this thread, but if you don't mind I'd like to put in my 2¢ worth on Jim White's dilemma.

Jim--you'd be taking the neck down in diameter about .032" for the 7x57 brass so you should probably try to take it down in several steps. You may even need to anneal the brass partway through the necking down process, but I'm not sure about that. If you are getting lots of dents and wrinkles in your casings, then I'd say anneal it before going on. The distance from the base of the 6mm Remington casing to the juncture of the neck and shoulder is listed at 1.882" in my Hornady book and that same measurement for the 7x57 brass is listed at 1.866" so it appears you'll have to fire form it to make it fit your 6mm Remington chamber better.

I guess you could try forming a few casings and see how it goes and then decide if it is worth the hassle. More consistent brass is usually a good thing to strive for though. Let us know how it works for you.

Wasn't my intent to hikjack the forum either. I figured we were both in the same situation albeit with different calibers. In my case I have the option of RWS brass in either 5.6x57 or 7x57. Which way would be more beneficial?

Thx (I can restart another thread if necessary, just seemed to me both issues are somewhat similar),

Jim

[kenbrofox]

Silverfox/Jim, No offence taken. It's good that it's brought in something similar to help someone else. Please carry on. Regards,Ken.
PS. Anyone know where i might get a 17 Rem. #1 form die? Sinclairs are fresh out.

[Silverfox]

kenbrofox--I don't know how Redding's prices stack up against Sinclair's, but here's a link to Redding's Web site where they list the following:

90217----17 Remington Form #1-----$77.70
83217----17 Remington Trim Die----$54.30

http://www.redding-reloading.com/index. ... rming-dies

Jim--Hopefully, someone with some experience with the options you are looking at will chime in here. I don't have any experience forming 6mm Remington from either casing you mention so I would only be guessing. With the 5.6x57 brass you'd be expanding the neck a tiny bit and with the 7x57 you'd be necking it down quite a bit. You may need to do some neck turning if you use the 7x57 brass. As I suggested earlier, if it isn't too much hassle (if you can find the right dies), try forming a couple casings of the 5.6x57 brass and likewise for the 7x57 brass. See which works best.