Cut vs. Button rifling

[rdelung]

Can anyone tell me the pro's and cons.? Thanks, Rde.

[BabaOriley]

Welcome to the 204um!

I'm no authority on cut vs button rifling, but I think the subject has been explained in detail MANY times all over the Internet. A question like that is possibly more appropriate for Google initially. Unless you have a more specific question, it's hard to expect anyone go into a long detailed description on a subject in which there's so much information readily available. Again, I am not discouraging you from asking questions in here, as there's many people who love answering questions, but I think they may need more specific questions on a subject.

Click here for some links to information on the subject. Let us know either way if you find what you're looking for or still have questions.

Good luck!

[Hotshot]

Many people think that cut rifling is better(if done right). Cutting is a slow process therefore expensive. Button style is way more practical for manufacturing and many companies have really perfected this style.

[Jim White]

Can anyone tell me the pro's and cons.? Thanks, Rde.

Its hard to judge which one is better but from my Service Rifle competition days, comparing Douglas (Button Cut) and Kreiger (Single Point Cut) barrels, single point cut barrels (Kreiger, Obermeyer and the old USGI M1 barrels) displayed better accuracy than button cut barrels over a higher number of shots/rounds. Using 7.62 barrels as a reference with LC brass, a 168 SMK with 41.5 grains of 4895, a Douglass would typically start to drop off around 4500 rounds or so, Kreigers would do the same around 6500 rounds. Of note, some would go longer while others went sooner. Year in and year out this was the norm.

If one shot a M1 Garand, the best deal was to find a USGI M1 barrel in 7.62 that was chromed lined. Most (and certainly not all) shot just as good as a custom barrel and they would still shoot with as many as 10,000 rounds down the tube. In that realm of shooting where changing barrels is normal wear and tear, IMO, the cost difference starts to favor the the higher cost of the Kreigers/Obermeyers especially when you start to consider the cost of machining and gunsmithing and the waiting.

Now, what I’m “not” saying is; “one is more accurate (tighter groups) than the other”. In that department it’s a toss up, more often than not coming down to the skill of the rifleman.

I’ve also heard and perhaps a Metallurgist could pipe that single point cut barrels does-not have the stressed induced like it does on a button cut or perhaps a broach cut barrel.

Also, there are Button Cut Barrels, Single-Point Cut Barrels, Broach Cut Barrels and Hammer Forged Barrels. To the best of my knowledge, these are the only methods to cut barrels.

HTH.

[rdelung]

After some checking around, I'm going to go with a cut barrel. The people at Sharpshooter Supply have a button Douglas barrel at $ 310.00 and a cut Brux barrel at $385.00 I like the fact that less stress is put on the barrel during the rifiling process. This build is to be a 1000 yd gun. So I think putting a better than average barrel on, will increase my chances of getting what I want. Thanks again for all your input. R.Delung

[acloco]

Would be interesting to obtain chrome lined barrels in all of our favorite calibers.

Report back when you get your barrel and loads worked up.

[Rick in Oregon]

rdelung: If you're after the best barrel money can buy for 1K yard work, then you may want to consider Krieger, as most 1,000 yard shooters use his cut rifled barrels on their competition guns. There are many excellent barrel makers out there, but Krieger is considered at the top of the heap in terms of cut rifled barrels.

[rdelung]

Thanks for the info. I'll look into it. R. Delung

[Jim White]

What caliber is this barrel going to be (you mentioned 1000 yd shooting...)?

One barrel maker equally, if not better than Kreiger would be a (Boots) Obermeyer, especially with the 5R rifling. His barrels are also single-point-cut, and as far as I know, only Kreiger and Obermeyer produce single point cut barrels, all others are either button-cut, broach-cut or hammer-forged.

Now the downside to Obermeyer barrels are;

1. Availability. Since 2001 (or so) he has been doing a lot of DOD work. However, he has a web site and he may have what you want. His operation is on a small scale.

2. If this barrel is for a auto-loader (M1, M14, AR15/10) then IIRC those barrels are in the rough and will need to have the gas port drilled followed by the threading, timing and splining for the attached appendages. Trust me, you don't want a plumber doing this part or someone who isn't familiar with this aspect of fitting barrels. The drilling of the gas port is the most critical (in the center of the groove, not the land or on both) because everything else is based off of the gas port).

Years ago, I was wanting one of his barrels for a AR. He told me it was going to be a while and he highly recommended a (Jack) Kreiger barrel. Can’t go wrong with that.

HTH,

[Bayou City Boy]

+1 what Jim White said....

Obermeyer barrels with the angled 5R rifling have long been know in accuracy circles. As Jim mentioned, since he does a lot of government work, getting a barrel from him is a chore in itself. But if you're lucky enough to get one in a timely fashion, you won't be unhappy with the product you get.

His 5R rifling process is not new and actually dates back to Japanese gun makers, but he has made a very valid reputation for accuracy among BR shooters and other extreme "accuracy nuts".

-BCB

[Wrangler John]

Then there's David Tubb that uses Gary Schneider Barrels exclusively for 1,000 yard guns. He specs out polygonal rifled barrels for the 6XC. I purchased one of Schneider's barrels, although in standard rifling, and found it as accurate as any. Now if I could just shoot as well as Tubb - well let's not discuss it.

So many barrels, so little time.

[Jim White]

Then there's David Tubb that uses Gary Schneider Barrels exclusively for 1,000 yard guns. He specs out polygonal rifled barrels for the 6XC. I purchased one of Schneider's barrels, although in standard rifling, and found it as accurate as any. Now if I could just shoot as well as Tubb - well let's not discuss it.

So many barrels, so little time.

So true but for a gas gun I'd go with cut rifling because of longetivity, otherwise a button cut by Schneider, Shilen, Lilja, Hart (and some I didn't mention) are all 1st rate and as long as everything is assembled correctly it will come down to the shooter and the ammo.

[Verminator2]

His barrels are also single-point-cut, and as far as I know, only Kreiger and Obermeyer produce single point cut barrels, all others are either button-cut, broach-cut or hammer-forged.

,

Brux, Bartlien, and Lawton all make cut barrels as well. I have a Krieger chambered in .243 AI being put on my action for 1000 yard F-Class Competition and varminting. I've also heard that cut barrels last a little bit long than buttoned barrels.

[Jim White]

His barrels are also single-point-cut, and as far as I know, only Kreiger and Obermeyer produce single point cut barrels, all others are either button-cut, broach-cut or hammer-forged.

,

Brux, Bartlien, and Lawton all make cut barrels as well. I have a Krieger chambered in .243 AI being put on my action for 1000 yard F-Class Competition and varminting. I've also heard that cut barrels last a little bit long than buttoned barrels.

Verminator

Thanks for the heads up. I've heard the Bartlien can be had in a 5R type of rifling. All I can say, its anything like Obermeyer 5R barrels, I'd snag one in a minute if I were in need of a new one.

Jim

[rdelung]

I don't know if this helps or not. I'm building a 6.5 x 47 Lapua on a Savage platforme. I have hopes of making this a 1000 yd. gun. I went ahead and put in an order from Sharpshooter Supply for a cut barrel. I'll keep you all informed as to performance.