.204 with Leupold varmint reticle

[thwak]

anyone play with it? I just got a remington r-15 in .204 with 22" barrel with leupold vx-III 4.5-14 with the varmint reticle. Book says to use reticle with a 300 yd zero. I know that will put me pretty high at 100 where most of the action is likely to take place. I hunt mostly coyotes, bobcats, foxes, hogs, javelinas etc. not prarie dogs in the next county. I am leary to deviate from the manual cuz i dont want to complicate my holdovers but would a 200yd zero or maybe 1" high at 200yds throw off those holdover points to bad. What are yalls experience with this specific reticle and caliber with regard to your zero and subsequent impact yardage at each different graduation mark. thanks in advance.

[Captqc]

I've got that reticle and I went ahead and zeroed at 100 yards. Haven't had a bit of trouble using it from 50 yards to 450 yards. Gary

[Rick in Oregon]

I also have that reticle in seven different rifle scopes, and can say the only way to really get full use out of yours is to take it afield, zero it at 200 yards with the center reticle intersection, then shoot at various distances to see where YOUR loads cross the other hash marks. You may have to use uneven distances (such as say, 335 yards) to intersect perfectly with your POI, but in one afternoon you'll have it dialed.

No one here can give you specifics, you just have to get out and shoot your loads with your rifle to get it straight. Besides, while doing this, you'll gain new knowledge and confidence in you, your rifle, scope, and load.

[thwak]

agreed. I was hoping to simplify and not have to remember so many yardages but I guess I will need to make a cheat card in my scope cover. thanks.

[Hotshot]

I zero mine at 200 yards with favorite 39 bkings. First line is 370 yards, second is 460, and the third is 550. Now that I'm used to it, I can calculate the hold pretty easy out to 600 yards. I'm only .7 inch high at 100 yards. This works well for my needs on pdogs and coyotes. Different loads and rifles would vary somewhat, so you need to test yours in the field.

[Little Club]

Rick and Hotshot are dead on. I love that reticle! I also sight at 200 and go from there and it doesn't take as long as you would think to figure out the other reticle distances.

[jlnolly]

hot shot what type of firearm are you using??

[Ankeny]

I am using the VH reticle on a CZ 527 Varmint. I zeroed at 200, then backed my loads off until I was pretty close all the way to 500. I also have the reticle on a regular 527. I zeroed with the 400 yard mark at 400 and I am pretty close at 200 and 300, but a hair high at 500.

[Hotshot]

jlnolly,

Sorry to miss your question. I have three Savage varmint rifles in 204 and my 39gr load is just slightly under max with BR-4 primers and R10X powder in Winchester brass. I use this load exclusively in my rifles and several of my friends love it as well. Win brass because I load 1500 for 3 rifles and slightly under max on powder because 100 temps on the prairie can raise the pressure too high on max loads. My 204's are for prairie dog shooting. I've killed dogs at over 600 yards with this equipment and I value the Leupold VH reticle highly. Next step is fast twist barrel and 50, 55 gr Bergers out to 800. I will zero my VH at 300 and figure the rest from there. Why make it more complicated---the solution is already here.

[Hotshot]

By the way, there is no reason to match yout reticle reference marks to exactly 200, 300, 400, etc. unless you shoot targets at those exact ranges for most of your shooting. When I'm in a prairie dog town, gopher patch, or coyote stand I can't ever get the varmints to stand at exactly 200, 300, 400. They always go to 311, 427, 286, 539 like they don't even know how to play the game.

[jlnolly]

Thx. hotshot I also have a savage 204 and a R15 remy in 204 great guns THX. jlnolly

[Critter]

I also have that reticle in seven different rifle scopes, and can say the only way to really get full use out of yours is to take it afield, zero it at 200 yards with the center reticle intersection, then shoot at various distances to see where YOUR loads cross the other hash marks. You may have to use uneven distances (such as say, 335 yards) to intersect perfectly with your POI, but in one afternoon you'll have it dialed.

No one here can give you specifics, you just have to get out and shoot your loads with your rifle to get it straight. Besides, while doing this, you'll gain new knowledge and confidence in you, your rifle, scope, and load.

Put the ballistics data in the Handheld!

Fundamentally, this approach of putting ballistics data in the reticle fails the fundamental engineering reasonableness test. BS Flags are flying at many locations. Here is why.

Ballistics prediction is a function of many variables such as Humidity, Barometric Pressure (Altitude), angle of incidence, target velocity, shooter velocity(shooting from vehicle or helicopter), Wind velocity and direction, muzzle velocity, bullet configuration and weight, barrel length, etc.

If you print bullet path information on the reticle, and even if you develop a special load that performs to the designated ballistics path, as soon as you modify any or all of the above variables, you get a different path. Now change in the path is a function of how much variation you see in the various values.

My approach is to put an arbitrary scale such as MOA or Mil on the reticle and use a balliistics computer and weather instrument to predict the bullet fall. US Army has finally recoginized this and has purchased the Horus Ballistics prediction computer. I have been using this system for years and it put me on PDs in 20 knot winds at 300 yards when every body else in Winner SD that day was wasting ammo. (Luepold's reticle has only three available wind velocitys.)

I won't even mention what it did for a certain team at the IDAHO Sniper match a few years ago when they went from dead last to seventh place using it in the last few stages of the match.

http://www.horusvision.com/press.php?release=1

Once all the above constants are entered and stored into the PDA (a five-minute process) the software chip generates the exact hold within 1/100th of a MIL. For example, if you wanted to know the exact hold for 741 meters in 89 degrees with 42% humidity and 29.2 mrc of barometric pressure, you have it. Atmospheric changes entered into the PDA automatically update the shooting data, ensuring much more timely and accurate data than having to account for each change with a calculator—or just guessing.

Just about every rifle range in the military and civilian sector measures the distance from the firing line to the target in yards, yet on the battlefield we measure in meters. Not a problem for the ATrag. The chip can seamlessly transition back and forth between the two units of measure. No stubby pencils, no calculators, no complicated formulas laminated and stuck who knows where. The time investment required to generate all of the data made available by the ATrag would be enormous if not impossible. Now you can get your data for each meter or yard line, weather immaterial, in a process that requires you to fire six rounds (assuming no shooter error). It’s possible and it’s invaluable.

Other added benefits of the ATrag include the ability to store data on different loads and even different rifles; this is especially useful for military and police units. Should one sniper’s rifle break, he can quickly transition to either an unassigned weapon or borrow one from a fellow sniper. As long as the load’s muzzle velocity has been confirmed, all that’s required is a confirmation of zero in the new weapon and the ATrag will generate the data require to shoot any distance.
There is also a tremendous advantage if a sniper is required to shoot different loads in their rifle. For example, the BC (ballistic coefficient) of M118LR (Army issue .308 match ammo) is .496. Out of my once-issued M40XB it had a muzzle velocity of 2716 fps. In cases where M118LR wasn’t available, all that was required of me was to enter in the BC and muzzle velocity of what was available and I could continue to train. We de-linked the machine gun ammo and had accurate data to train and shoot it. This would be impossible without the ATrag

[Hotshot]

critter,

I'd never argue the efficiency of what you're doing, but my way is way more simple. humidity and barometer, even altitude won't change the 500 yard balistics more than a couple inches. My life doesn't depend on a first shot kill at a 473 yard prairie dog, but I'll be close if I miss and he's in big trouble for shot number two when I have such precise references in my reticle.

[Rick in Oregon]

Let's also keep in mind that not everyone wants to, or has the means to haul out a portable ballistics lab, handheld or whatever, just to shoot squirrels, chucks or prairie dogs. The Varmint Hunter Reticle is more of a "guideline" (heard that before?) than any ballistic rule. Just take the rifle out with your load, note where the hash marks intersect with bullet impact, and you'll be in there good enough for what you want to do in 90% of most varmint shooting applications.

Of course you can always get that first shot kill at 832 yards if you really want to, by using Dave's methods. A bit too time consuming, technical and contrived for me, but I'll not argue their effectiveness at the receiving end. My squirrels won't sit still long enough for me to enter anything into a handheld device though, so I'll just stick to "Dial-A-Rat" the way I've been doing it for many years. Seems to work quite well, at least for me, NOT for Skippy!

Range target, consult chart on flip cap, dial in appropriate elevation in MOA, hold dead on, allow for wind, shoot. It's not hard.



Of course, you can also use the Varmint Hunter Reticle, what this thread was about from the start.

[Critter]

One of the features of the ATRAG software is that once you have entered in the information for local conditions, it will publish a range card for those conditions just like the one you have on your scope cap.

Big problem though is not range but wind effects and even that is not really a big problem. With the 100 grain 6.5 FTHP at 3220 that I used in Winner SD only required exactly 1 mil of windage offset at 300 yards to get me a PD in an 18mph wind that Doc Williams and his lawyer friend were barraging with their AR-15. My particular hunting partner at the time who didn't have a steel varmint master bench was off chasing his shooting table which had literally left the field and flew away in the wind.

Fun stuff. Weather the next day was much better.