If you guys have time....

[scootertrash]

I've posted an article on another forum of my .204 that is shot out. I've also sectioned the barrel, and posted pics. Rather than repost everything here, I'd like to just provide you a link if I may. Moderators, please delete if this is not permitted.

If you have a few moments to check it out, please do so, and I'd like to hear your comments. The .204 has been around long enough now, that some folks are starting to get a few rounds thru them. I'm positive mine is an isolated case, but would be interested in how others are faring. RIO and Silverfox are two folks that come to mind as maybe having 2K plus rounds thru a .204.

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=723426

Thanks,
Mike

[WHISTLEPIG]

Very interesting. Did you scope the rifle at all when it was shooting good? I wonder what the bore condition was then. My Brother bought a Rem LVSF for a project gun a year or two ago and the barrel on that rifle, unfired had sections of rifling missing. It did produce some 3" groups out of the 20 rounds he fired through it before his build. That barrel is now a plant stake and conversation piece in his yard.

[scootertrash]

The last time it was scoped was around the 1000 round mark. It appeared fine at that time. It was around 1700, I started noticing much different results than I had grown accustomed to.

And let me get this straight, the rifle you were describing....it had rifling missing when it was new???

Mike

[WrzWaldo]

scootertrash,

Nice writeup and photos. Hey if you want to send me that barrel I'll get some macro (up close) photos of it.

[Glen]

I do not like JB. It is an abrasive & will cut steel. I'm not going to argue this point. I'm just wondering how many rds the JB took off the barrel is all I'm saying.

That PN otta be a sweet one tho!! Let us know how well she shoots for you.

[scootertrash]

Thanks fellas. Yes, I've heard all the pros and cons of JB. I also won't argue it. I use the JB every 300 rounds, (usually one day in a pdog town). I knew for the last 300 rounds in this rifle, it was severely copper fouling, but would shoot well for about six rounds after a good cleaning. When I did the scope change, I cleaned it well again.

If this rifle was used on 'chucks, it may very well still be shooting today, but you can't be cleaning a pdog rifle every six rounds. That would be about every three minutes.

WP, I got some macros, but they have a 600 pixel width limit on that site, and it was difficult to get the images resized and still show enough detail. I have barrel in hand anyway, don't really need to see more than I saw under the scope this morning!!

Like I said, I don't think this is typical, and as we all know, stuff happens.

Mike

[glenn asher]

Fascinating post, Scoot, both of them. My Savage pipe is getting near that point, and probably needs a scoping, too, to check on it, but it's still shooting acceptably well for now. Of course, after the trip this June, it might not be..............I'll worry about it, in July.
This was a really good post, though, and really, really thought provoking.

[scootertrash]

Sorry Glenn, I should have posted a link to the first thread as well, but as you probably saw, it didn't turn out real well, and got a bit ugly. But glad you found it, and were able to get something civil out of it.

Mike

[Rick in Oregon]

Scooter: Wow, very good post on the link there, bud. Most excellent photos on the link, along with a very good dissertation, one of the best jobs I've seen on a forum anywhere. (pat, pat....) I could envision you standing there at the mill, fly cutter making chips, and that barrel singing in the vise.

After a through review, pondering, scratching my head, I've come to about the same conclusion as some of the others, either some substandard barrel steel that was unkown to the manufacturer that had some inclusions that lacked proper alloy, most likely lack of the proper carbon content, stainless steel or not.

I know from past experience that you take proper measures when cleaning your barrels, and that you are like me, and enjoy shooting PD type critters colony style as we do here (I try to get to one of the PD states every summer too). That said, the only thing the barrel failure could possibly be is mechanical, meaning structural compositon of barrel steel.

The way the thing deteriorated is quite odd, but the facts remain the same, and my money is on failure under stress of the steel from the 1700 rounds when it started to show up, and complete failure 300 rounds later.

That may be right, then again it could be complete tripe, we may never know, but that's about all I can offer considering my limited crainal capacity. You might want to bring your post up with Varmint Al, as being a PhD type metalurgist, I'm certain he'll have the 'real' answer.

I'm sure we'd all be quite interested in the outcome of what Al has to say....keep us posted.

[scootertrash]

Great idea Rick, I'll see if I can't get him the info.

Mike

EDITED TO ADD: Email sent to Al. I'll let you know if I hear from him.

[WHISTLEPIG]

Chunks missing from .25 to .50. Looked like the tool had skipped or had a broken piece.

[Ray P]

Mike.........nice post and artical. I know you said 2000 rounds were put thru the barrel with mininual throat wear. Maybe you should send this post to the rifle manufacture and they might send you out a barrel. Just a thought of keeping good customer faith. Just maybe its worth a try. Impressive photos and thanks for sharing. Keep us posted with what you end up with as far as a barrel.
Good luck
Later
Ray P

[scootertrash]

Ray,

I won't be contacting the rifle maker, it is what it is. I have no ill feelings about it at all. Myself and the fellas I shoot with don't put much stock in any factory barrels to begin with. In fact, this was the last small caliber I own that still was shooting a factory tube. And out of a dozen or so rifles, I only have two remaining with factory barrels, and they are big game rifles so they will be just fine.

I've already replaced the barrel with a PAC-NOR 11 twist three groove. It was reamed with a match reamer from Dave, and has a .035 leade. Rick, if you reread this thread, I saw where you are having a reamer done with zero leade. Just FYI, the .035 and 39 grain pills, if touching the lands, I have .227 of bullet in the case, with .167 of that bullet shank.

I do not touch or jam lands with any hunting rig, and have had a lot of success with .020-.030 jump with the twenty calibers. If one of these depths work again, I will have .187-.197 bullet shank inside the case. The 39 grain is all I shoot from my .204. So this should give you some idea of how your zero leade reamer will shape up.

Mike

[Rambler]

Hey Scooter thats a very good post I have read many many times from the barrel people that most barrels are worn out from cleaning more than shooting. What are your thoughts on that.

[scootertrash]

I use a Dewey Rod and a Mike Lucas bore guide on all my rifles. The damage in this barrel wasn't done from cleaning!

Yes people damage barrels, metal rods, no bore guides, cleaning from the muzzle end etc. That type of destruction is usually found either at the lands just in front of the chamber, or they wear a spot in the muzzle crown.

Mike