N-133 working well in .204R as well as 20BR

Rodbolt · Post by **Rodbolt** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:35 pm

I finally was able to purchase a couple 8# jugs of the new N133. We are getting ready for our second South Dakota PD shoot and though the .204R's are my main stay, I've built a couple 20BR's and decided to slow them down a bit for the prairie dog attacks. I found a nice low pressure load at 4035fps average with 39gr BlitzKings into the lands and 29.4gr N-133 for the 20BR.

The surprise came when I tryed a load I saw on this forum in a heavy bench .204R, 26.8 grains of N133 with the same 39gr. BK. The load shot better then my best before, 30.1 BLC-2 and gained around 24fps in the 27" Pacnor barrel. It shot five shot groups in the .2's and .3's, consistant groups and ES was low. All shooting was done off my heavy,rotating PD bench, stable but not a concrete bench. I don't think I can shoot any better groups off this bench so I was very pleased with the new .204 load.

As the evening light was going I grabbed a factory barreled Savage LRPV and tried 6 shots through it, (bullets were loaded out for the factory chamber), it gained 60fps over the 30.0 BLC-2 load, but both groups were not real good due to poor lighting and rushed up shooting. I'lll being trying more N133 tomorrow and this week in my other .204's.

Phasor · Post by **Phasor** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:47 pm

Sounds like you are on to something. I have been trying to locate some N-133 for awhile now, but so far no joy. I do have some N-135 and N-540 that I might give a try. But the N-133 stuff is very scarce around here....I guess the PPC shooters gobble it up when it becomes available.

Phasor

Rodbolt · Post by **Rodbolt** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:44 pm

The N133 is scarce and sells out within a few days on a fresh shipment. I missed out at Champion shooters but got my jugs at RW Hart and Sons. I think they may still have one pound cans but shipping/haz fee hurts in small orders. Graf's is close to getting some and MidSouth is a month late on their expected order. Graf's did get restocked on N540, N140 and N135 I picked some up there this week. They sold out of Rem. 7 1/2 primers and Wolfe small rifle primers in a blink! N540 and N140 are best for peak velocity/accuracy in a couple 20BR's I have (one likes the 140 the best the other 540..) and N135 works great in .223AI with midwieght bullets. I've not tried any of them in the .204R's. The VV powders makes barrel cleaning a breeze.

jo191145 · Post by **jo191145** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:58 am

I've been using N135 with excellent results in my 204 with 40 Bergs. This Viht powder is some strange but great stuff. My groups tend to walk around just a little when I start shooting usually giving me a .5 -.6
After ten or fifteen rds they just settle down and go in one hole. It doesnt matter if I leave the barrel fouled from the day before or clean it. Never seen this particular phenomonom before. I'm wondering if they add something to it that creates this. Yep cleanup is a snap.

I'm waiting on Midsouths Shipment. Just picked up 4lbs of N530 yesterday.
10 foulers and 16 ladder loads set for afterwork.

Rodbolt · Post by **Rodbolt** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:04 am

Interesting on the barrel taking a while to settle down, I'll pay more attention now but since I started running a graphited (Kroil Graphite or Lock-Eze) patch down the barrel after cleaning my first shot is on or very close. The lube is supposed to make the next clean easier and it does on good barrels but doesn't do much for the rough ones.

I'll give N135 a try in the 204, got a favorite or a recommendation to work up too? Thanks.

jo191145 · Post by **jo191145** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:49 pm

Rodbolt

I just began using Lock-eze myself. Not really sure if I would need it.
For whatever reason Viht 135 seems perfect for my barrel anyway. Just enough carbon that I get little to no coppering. Burns clean enough that I'm not developing a volcano on the crown. Berger bullets also seem to help in this regard. I've tried Hornady 40's with the Viht and noticed some streaking and no acceptable accuracy. I'm going to try the 39's in a day or so.
26.8-26.9 with the 40 Berg is a nice spot to be. Depending on the primers used velocity is around 3730-3750. Rem 7.5's might bounce that higher. In my first ladder 27.1 (3800+)was the center of a large node. Even 27.4 gets some excellent groups. Heres one for the BS meters. Best five shot group so far at 200yds is .140.

Just shot two ladders at 200yds with N530. My 204 with 40 Bergs and fire forming Nosler brass, no case prep. Just load em and shoot. I had seven cases already primed with CCI 400's. Used them for foulers even though I never cleaned the barrel from the n135. Loaded light at 25.5gns. One shot to adjust scope to rough center.
Shots 2 and 3 formed a nice figure eight. Then a slight jump down and the little Viht walk. 4,5,6,7 all touching but moving down and to the left. Overall group .609. The last four after the jump .484 Not bad for an arbitrary fouling load at 200. They averaged 3650fps.
The ladder itself was pretty confusing. No real nodes found. Except for two shots everything from 3610fps - ????fps grouped .794

I'm intentionally leaving out the top velocity so no one tries to duplicate it or thinks its normal to push a 40gn that fast. Hint, One foot per second more and the dogtown warranty would be voided. Pierced a Fed 205 with that one. Just had to see what was up there.
I think I'll reshoot the ladder with some fire formed brass and thicker primers. I will not go as high as I did though.

My 223 with 52gn A-max really seemed to come alive with 530. Never tried 135 in it yet. Its been eating a steady diet of Win 748 and WS2.
One huge node found up high. 24.6- 25.8 grouped .836. Load 25.0 made the group that big by being high. The other six grouped .647. I'm betting on 25.5 for starters. Once again folks. Im using Tungsten Disulfide coated bullets here. Do not attempt to go this high with naked bullets.
I cant wait to get some more Berger 60's They've been the best all around performers in this gun so far.

Sorry for the long post. I'm just a tad excited about the prospects.
I've also noticed these two Viht powders burn cooler than most. A plus in the P Dog towns. Dare I say it but frequent cleaning seems to be a thing of the past. Now its a guilt thing.

Rodbolt · Post by **Rodbolt** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:27 am

jo191145,
Congrat's on that .140" two hundred yard group, that's a keeper! I've been impressed with all the VV powders that I've tried, but just started with them this year. The N135 get the .223AI velocity where it usable. It just leaves H335 in the "dust", I bet the N530 would be worth trying too.

Phasor · Post by **Phasor** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:08 pm

I couldn't find any 8 lb jugs of N-133 so I ordered four 1 lb cans from Powder Valley. Will do some load testing with my Cooper 204 Ruger until my custom 20 PPC is built.

Phasor

Phasor · Post by **Phasor** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:45 pm

Rodbolt-

Did you do anymore testing in other rifles with N-133? I am looking to try some load workup with it next week sometime with the 39 Sierra BK. Just curious if it performed as well in your other 204's.

Phasor

KVW · Post by **KVW** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:50 pm

Just chiming in here on the viht powder. I use n-135 and thanks to JO191145 I am shooting the best I ever have with my 204 using 39 gr bk. I laddered up in 1 gr increments from 26.5 to 27 gr. It settled in at 26.9. I shoot comp varmint matches with it and have seen great success so far. I'm hooked on N-135. Give it a try because it is easier to get than 133.

Hawkeye Joe · Post by **Hawkeye Joe** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:45 am

I just picked up a pound of N135.The local gun shop has the whole lineup!
Anybody try it on the 35 Bergers yet?? I'll give it a try after I finish up my second pound of Benchmark. Only have 3/4 left. I'm loaded up with fireformed Norma brass. Just waitin for the rain to stop. At least I think it's rain

.Haven't seen any since May

I think it's time to revisit the 39BK's and 40 Bergs

jo191145 · Post by **jo191145** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:43 am

Hawkeye

Just to give you an idea of where to start. (or stop)
28.0gns of 135 should put the 35's right at the 4000fps mark. Of course you'll want to work up to this load. I have gone even higher but your getting into no mans land at 4100fps. 4221 gave me a sticky bolt.
WARNING 4200fps would be way way over max if there was realistic Viht data.
As long as your gun likes the 35's I'm confident you'll find some decent accuracy long before you need to get that high.
With 35's my old worn barrel burped out one last zero. 0.79 at 3900fps during load development. That tube just loved the 35's.

I'll be trying CCI 450's and 39's soon. Just screwed on another 308 tube. Want to try the heavys in that too. Compare some loads between that and a buddies Remy.

Start low and work up. I saw plenty of nodes in my limited testing with the 35's
Use a chrono and enjoy!!!

Rodbolt · Post by **Rodbolt** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:59 am

Phasor wrote:Rodbolt-

Did you do anymore testing in other rifles with N-133? I am looking to try some load workup with it next week sometime with the 39 Sierra BK. Just curious if it performed as well in your other 204's.

Phasor

Sorry for the delay, I've been out of the loop for a bit. Made the second trip to SD to lay a few prarie poodles to rest. I got tied up with a new 20BR then I had trouble with my Dillon 550 that I use for volume .204R dogtown ammo. The powder measure acted up and would not work with N133 so I used the last of my BLC-2 and loaded up 850 204's. Man was it hot, I backed the load 2//10s off my May load and still had occional overpressure unless I kept the ammo in a cooler and out of a heat soaked chamber. I hope to try the N133 as well as N135 & N140 in my other rifles but will wait for a bit cooler weather. I used N133 in the 20BR's which has a larger capacity then a 204R, N140 and N540 seem to be the best velocity powders for the 20BR but N133 would give me 4050-4060 fps with under 30 grain of powder while the slower powders take a few grains more to get the same or better albeit with less pressure. I'm hoping the faster powder, with less grains, ehances barrel life in a dogtown.

Phasor · Post by **Phasor** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:34 pm

I got out today and tried the N-133 in my Cooper 204. I started at 25.5 gr with the 39 Sierra and worked up to 26.8 gr at a tenth of a grain per group. I think my rifle likes also! It chronographed an avg of 3915 at 26.8 gr and I was shooting under a half inch 5 shot groups under less than stellar conditions. I believe that I will play with this powder bullet combo again!!! Thanks all for posting your results as it helped a great deal. I will try the N-135 also.

Phasor

richnmib · Post by **richnmib** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:12 am

Where can I get load info for N133 and N135. Thanks