re-barrel 204 help needed

[TrapperDan]

I have a cz american in 204.this series has such a skinny barrel it,s NOT for all day squirrel shooting.talker to pacnor ,she asked what contour I wanted,uuuuuh,uuuuuh,I'll get back to you.cz makes a varmint barrel that they could do but am hoping you guys might have a suggestion on a better contour.have lots of wood to work with.Also if I may,also thinking of going to 20 vt.but that brings up a lot more questions,barrel length, twist ,contour, chamber,bolt work etc.would be a dedicated squirrel gun.Single shot only.Any and all help on this would be appreciated.Thanks Dan

[Mike]

Squirrel shooting from a bench or walking around?

[TrapperDan]

from a bench Mike.

[Rick in Oregon]

Dan, FWIW from a life-long squirrel shooter, the smaller Fireball cartridge case could very well be the absolute perfect base for a dedicated rat rifle especially in .20 caliber. It took me 45 years of shootin' squirrels to figure out the 20VT is probably the very best squirrel cartridge to ever come down the pike for 98% of any squirrel shooting I've ever done. But the best VT's are usually built from a Fireball-based donor rifle (or custom action). As you'll shoot singleshot, no biggie, but the rifle you'll end up with will only use your original action.....a waste of a nice CZ American.

You'll also want to ponder just using a single shot action to take advantage of the solid-bottom receiver for it's inherient stiffness that contributes so much to precise accuracy. A single shot bolt gun is always more accuate than a repeater, all things being equal.

I'd suggest either selling your existing rifle, or better yet, hang on to it for a walkabout rifle if you're able, and just bite the bullet and either get a factory HB rifle in a Fireball caliber (17 or 221FB), put a varmint contour barrel on it from a reputable maker and have it chambered for 20VT, then pick the varmint-configuration stock from an aftermarket source you prefer.....there's beaucoup choices (I use P/N alot too).

Not to say I've found the panacea of bench rat rifles, but here's the outcome of many days in the field over the years, having my way with Skippy for 'extended periods':

(Cooper M38 Varmint with Jard 10 oz trigger in 20VT, Leupold VX3 LR 6.5-20X 40mm with VHR & M1 elevation)



I can shoot this little puppy all day at Skippy and his pals for up to almost 300 rounds (the most I've tried it so far), with no degradation of accuracy for shots past 450 yards, and she'll clean right up with minimal effort at the end of the day. It's the best rat caliber I've ever tried, and I only wish I had listened to Todd Kindler sooner when he kept buggin' me to build one, knowing exactly what I do around these parts. I also use it for rock chuck walkabouts with sticks......oh yeah.

I should mention that I also own and shoot four 204's....love 'em, still shoot 'em for LR rats and chucks and occasional coyote, but these daze, most of my bench rat shooting is done with my 20VT......90% of 204 performance with 30% LESS powder, barrel heat, blast, and recoil. It's like shooting a 500 yard pellet gun......really.....and save your 204 barrel for when you really want to stretch it out.

Moral: If you build one, you'll not regret it......ever.

[wirelessguy2005]

I agree with the direction that Rick provided. However if you do decide to use the American action and rebarrel it to 204 ruger or 20 Vartarg for bench varmint shooting you might also look at Green Mountain barrels. They offer a 25" long 20 caliber stainless barrel for $100. The only drawback to the barrel is that its a 1.06" diameter so you would have to get a varmint style stock and open the barrel channel up. CZ USA has a Laminate Varmint stock on their website for about $220 if i remember correctly. The good thing is with a barrel that heavy you can shoot it plenty before it heats up. I have purchased two of the Green Mountain stainless barrels for builds on my CZ 527's and have been very happy with the outcome.

Brad

[wirelessguy2005]

By the way if you do go with a 20VT chambering for your CZ i would recommend a 24" finished barrel length. I would also stick with a 1-12" twist barrel because it will be perfect for the lighter bullets that you will want to utilize for the 20VT. If you would like it to function as a repeater you can visit the CZ usa website and purchase fireball bottom metal as well as a 221 fireball magazine, once you add these items you should have a fully functioning 20 VT repeater. Also if you are looking for a gunsmith to do the chambering work I would highly recommend Bob Green in Pennsylvania. Bob has an excellent 20 VT reamer and he is a top notch gunsmith. He has built two 20 Vartarg rifles for me and they have both turned out excellent.

Here is a link to Bob's website if you are interested: http://greensrifles.com/

Brad

[TrapperDan]

I agree with you rick about the carry rifle as I have a remington 700 with varmint barrel also in 204 that I put a thumbhole stock on pillar bedded and free floated the barrel . It won't shoot bug holes but will shoot 1/2 -3/4" with my best reloads .The reason I wanted to rebarrel the cz as It won't shoot a 1" group and mostly 11/2" . cz has already replaced it twice as they agreed to its inaccuracy.This is#3
and I have given up on it.It's a lefty But shouldn't have anything to do with it.Hence rebarrel 20 vt.pac-nor sait they could chamber it and fit it to my action including lapping and trueing for extra $300 . This will be my last one so if you guys don't think it will shoot bug holes I will have to go another route.Don't want to be disapointed. Our two local gun smiths retired over the past 2 years so I don't have local advise. I will contact Mr green.Thank you for his address. I do so appriciate the help

[Bodei]

If it's cost effective for you, then DEFINITELY do the 20 VT! Another option is to sell your CZ and order the CZ in 17 Hornet which should be an outstanding colony varmint caliber. Do the math for all the options, but it sounds like you're on the right track. Last year I discovered exactly what Rick is talking about. .204, while a great caliber, heats up too fast when you are doing a ton of shooting. After 10 shots, mine needs a break. Hard to do when you have HUNDREDS of rats running in front of you. Sustained fire with little barrel heating that a Fireball or Hornet can provide is optimal.

[wirelessguy2005]

Dan,

Not to take anything away from Pacnor because they do nice work, but if you are having a custom rifle built I would always recommend using an actual gunsmith. If nothing else you will have someone to go back to if you have any questions or need support after the work is completed. Also i have never had a CZ 527 action trued and personally I don't think it would be necessary or beneficial. Bob Green charges $175 to chamber, fit, and crown a new barrel. You would be saving money from the start going that way instead of Pacnor. Not to mention that the 20 VT reamer Bob has will offer a little tighter tolerances than the saami reamer that Pacnor is most likely using. Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck and feel free to PM or email me if you have any questions or need any help with your new rifle. Also we typically keep Redding 20 VT dies in stock if you are in need.

If you want to get the most out of the rifle you could always purchase a good stock like the Grey Laminate Varmint stock that CZ usa sells on their website and send it along with your rifle so that the gunsmith can bed the action lug as well as the tang area. Typically that is all that is needed to make a CZ shoot lights out. One more thing I would recommend is having the trigger lightened and have the set feature taken out. Doing that gives you a very crisp light (1 lb) single stage trigger and that will make a difference in your accuracy as well. I do this on all my CZ rifles and they will routinely shoot well under a 1/2" and even better if i do my part and stay focused.

Brad

[TrapperDan]

Mornin all.and the plot thickens.Thanks to the help from you guys I am getting closer to being able to do the math.If savage would have came out with the 17 hornet prior to sept. we wouldn't be having this discussion.I would be reloading for it right now.BUT now you guys have really gotten me excited about the 20 vt.I would love to have a rifle that shoots bug holes like ricks does. Be it 204 or 20 vt. not sure if I can do that by re barreling the cz .My 204 remmy does a decent job but not quite close enough.I'm going to get ahold of bob green today,hope that works out. Called scheels last night about a cooper ,they are to get back to me today .RIO shoots bug hole but is that from his cooper or a custom job . He has so many I can't keep track. Thanks again, Dan

[Rick in Oregon]

Called scheels last night about a cooper ,they are to get back to me today .RIO shoots bug hole but is that from his cooper or a custom job . He has so many I can't keep track.

Mornin' Dan,...... my only 20VT is my Cooper M38 VR (Cooper's designation for standard varmint). Keep in mind that the primary advantage of the VT, besides being the most fun CF round I own, is it's amazing performance for case size, plus the fact it's so ideal for colony rodent shooting due to minimal barrel heating while still delivering stellar accuracy. It's like it was designed just for rat shooting.

There's other places that stock Coopers....here's where you may find one you like:

http://www.covecreekoutfitters.com/bran ... t=featured

The Mother Lode of Coopers with a great stock of CZ's also:

http://www.whittakerguns.com/

And just for fun, and I know it's been here before, but here's one of the bugholes for ya:



But first decide if you want a repeater such as the CZ, or a single shot. One has an advantage for bench shooting squirrels as you intend to do with the rifle.

Oh, and I know Bob Green is an excellent gunsmith in all regards, I've seen his work personally and would also recommend him. But just consider Pac-Nor (just down the road from you) besides being a barrel maker, has at least six smiths working there full time. They built my custom M700 11-twist, trued the action, custom ground lug, lapped the lugs, recut the action threads singlepoint, etc, and that rifle too shoots bugholes, but in 204 Ruger Match. It's handy for me/you here in Oregon, as P/N will make your barrel to your spec's, fit and chamber it to your trued action, even bed it if wanted and test fire. I do all my own bedding, but you get the idea. Lots of choices fer sure, good luck with the quest.

[RAMOS]

Warning: Teeny Tiny Hi-Jack Here

Rick, what is your' bedding material of choice. Rem 700 in a wood stock? Thanks!

[Rick in Oregon]

Warning: Teeny Tiny Hi-Jack Here: Rick, what is your' bedding material of choice. Rem 700 in a wood stock? Thanks!

Teeny Tiny Hi-jack reply: Brownells Accraglass Gel. Marine Tex is also excellent, both easy to work with. HTH

[wirelessguy2005]

I never realized Pacnor had that many full time gunsmiths in house. They may be a better option than i previously thought. The only downside there (as with many barrel makers currently) is the wait time. We are working with Pacnor right now on a large barrel buy and they told us the wait would be 4-5 months minimum before the order would ship. Anyone that is building a rifle for the coming summer may want to shop around and see what company offers the least wait time on their barrels.

[Hotshot]

Dan,
Pacnor will build you a barrel with the 1.06 shank and any length and contour you prefer. I know this by mistake. I bought a super match barrel advertised on Saubier as a small shank.
When I checked Pacnor web site they showed 1.150 and 1.200 shank size as well as larger for various target and bench rest apps. The barrel was still wrapped up as it left Pacnor so I figured I had a 1.150 shank. Not so! When I unwrapped to start my rebarrel project, I was quite surprised to find the 1.06 shank. PM me if you want to avoid the long wait, otherwise I will have to shop for one of those QR or PX or CZ or whatever they are.
Mark