savage 10/110 problems/guestions

[Avagadro]

All of you savage fans out there.....I also have a 10/110 in 204 ruger. I had the same situation - the gun shot 0.3 MOA with Hornady ammo FOR A WHILE. Then it decided to shoot a 2-3 MOA - nothing had changed - torque settings, scopes, rings, reference marks all good. Sent the gun back to Savage - they kept it for several weeks and sent it back with NO PAPER WORK or nothing about the problem. The gun was slightly better ---shooting 1.5 MOA groups. Wasn't happy with the results so I sent it back to SAVAGE (the CEO) with a 10 page power point showing the groups from the beginning and currently. They "replaced the barrel" and never told me how they decide if the accuracy is sufficient for a customer. After another several weeks, the gun arrived. Took it to the range and it too was a disaster. So, I began working up reloads for the gun. Was able to get 0.2 MOA at 50 yards with the gun with 32 gr bullets - that group would open up to 1.5 or so at 100 Yards - go figure - tried a number of powders, bullets, primers, etc., with similar results. The 39g SBK actually works pretty good. I was able to get 0.5 MOA groups with that bullet using benchmark and WIN primers. But over time, that group also began to open. So here I sit with a new barrel and a gun that still does not shoot for crap. So much for SAVAGE accuracy.

I am deciding whether to build a WILDCAT or get a different barrel for the Savage. I hate to throw good money after bad, but sadly, that may be the case (no pun intended) for this rifle. I can tell you that the frustration that I have experienced with SAVAGE, the gun, the trips back and forth to the factory with no input to me on what they did during the two times that the gun was there. I can also tell you that I will not buy another SAVAGE. I have a 308 from Savage. So far, it has worked well but I am quite concerned about the quality control that Savage apparently does not have.

And oh BTW, I changed scopes form the ZEISS 5-25 to a NF 5.5-22 and a NF 2.5-10 using a Larue Tactical mount and there was no change in accuracy. I also tried as many factory rounds that I could and none of those worked well. The SBK 39 gr with benchmark worked pretty good up until the point where it too began to lose accuracy. I have also tried Bergers, Hornady, and a few others. I am pretty burned out on the rifle at this point.

Will keep everyone posted if I get a new barrel and things improve or I will send out a picture of me melting the gun in my little brother's forge. That should be a nice video for the CEO eh??

Good shooting!!

[toasty]

All of you savage fans out there.....I also have a 10/110 in 204 ruger. I had the same situation - the gun shot 0.3 MOA with Hornady ammo FOR A WHILE. Then it decided to shoot a 2-3 MOA - nothing had changed - torque settings, scopes, rings, reference marks all good. Sent the gun back to Savage - they kept it for several weeks and sent it back with NO PAPER WORK or nothing about the problem. The gun was slightly better ---shooting 1.5 MOA groups. Wasn't happy with the results so I sent it back to SAVAGE (the CEO) with a 10 page power point showing the groups from the beginning and currently. They "replaced the barrel" and never told me how they decide if the accuracy is sufficient for a customer. After another several weeks, the gun arrived. Took it to the range and it too was a disaster. So, I began working up reloads for the gun. Was able to get 0.2 MOA at 50 yards with the gun with 32 gr bullets - that group would open up to 1.5 or so at 100 Yards - go figure - tried a number of powders, bullets, primers, etc., with similar results. The 39g SBK actually works pretty good. I was able to get 0.5 MOA groups with that bullet using benchmark and WIN primers. But over time, that group also began to open. So here I sit with a new barrel and a gun that still does not shoot for crap. So much for SAVAGE accuracy.

I am deciding whether to build a WILDCAT or get a different barrel for the Savage. I hate to throw good money after bad, but sadly, that may be the case (no pun intended) for this rifle. I can tell you that the frustration that I have experienced with SAVAGE, the gun, the trips back and forth to the factory with no input to me on what they did during the two times that the gun was there. I can also tell you that I will not buy another SAVAGE. I have a 308 from Savage. So far, it has worked well but I am quite concerned about the quality control that Savage apparently does not have.

And oh BTW, I changed scopes form the ZEISS 5-25 to a NF 5.5-22 and a NF 2.5-10 using a Larue Tactical mount and there was no change in accuracy. I also tried as many factory rounds that I could and none of those worked well. The SBK 39 gr with benchmark worked pretty good up until the point where it too began to lose accuracy. I have also tried Bergers, Hornady, and a few others. I am pretty burned out on the rifle at this point.

Will keep everyone posted if I get a new barrel and things improve or I will send out a picture of me melting the gun in my little brother's forge. That should be a nice video for the CEO eh??

Good shooting!!

In your 9 posts on this forum, we have been made very aware you do not like savage guns. I'll take that gun off your hands. I'm serious, how much to rid you of that piece of crap? PM your price if you prefer. I will not change a thing on the gun and will report if I can ever get it to shoot.

I bought a 7mm-08 Browning X Bolt a few years ago, what a piece of crap, it was shooting 2moa groups with factory ammo at 100 yards, I could only get 1.5moa groups with it with the first bullet and powder I tried for handloading. It killed a couple antelope with it at 500 yards, but it was still shooting 1.5moa groups with a clean barrel. After I got the barrel dirty, the groups opened up. Should I be furious with browning? Did they sell me a lemon? Is this one rifle an indication of all browning firearms? Well, I did a little research and a lot of guys like a 120g bullet for the 7mm-08 instead of the 140g, I switched bullets and tried 2 different powders. One powder can great groups until the barrel got dirty and groups opened up 3x. I tried the other powder and got even better groups, looked at groups after shooting several dozen shots and still getting a little better than .5 moa. I see this time and time again, guys blame everything on the gun and fail to look at the other dozen variables that could be affecting accuracy. A dirty barrel (especially a factory barrel) will start to open up, it is a function of powder, primer, bullet, barrel, heat, and some other things.

Both guys reports wreak of the same problem IMO. When a gun goes south that was shooting well before, it indicates hard carbon buildup in the throat. There isn't a chemical that will get it out (including bore tech, wipe out, or any other chemical), you need to go with a JB bore paste or something similar. Stay away from the crown, focus on the first 1/3 of the barrel after the throat, and you really can't ruin a barrel with JB.

[RAMOS]

Guess I view Avagadro's previous posts from a different perspective.

1. He is having recurring accuracy issues and posts some pertinent information.

2. People reply with various, and specific, suggestions.

3. His replies are respectful and show due consideration of the suggestions he received.

4. Obviously, Avagadro is frustrated with Savage. It's great that they have worked on the firearm twice. However, the all important communication detailing and documenting the work performed is not good.

5. Honestly, to me it seems he is earnestly seeking a reasonable resolution to this rifles lack of accuracy.

6. If it is as simple as a carbon issue, Savage should be able to diagnose that with a bore scope AND inform the customer of it.


Just to be clear: I don't know Avagadro from Adam and I don't personally have any reason to badmouth Savage or their products. I am sure his comments about videoing the rifle in the forge for the CEO is humor laced with understandable frustration. Just my two cents worth and, remember I gave it for free.

[toasty]

Guess I view Avagadro's previous posts from a different perspective.

I would guess you do see it differently. My interpretation of his posts have been attacking to say the least. Having reloaded and shot for long and short range accuracy for a couple decades, I have learned it is not fair to blame it all on the gun, lots of other variables. There are customers you just can't make happy, even if they shoot .5moa for a $500 factory gun.

[RAMOS]

There are customers you just can't make happy, even if they shoot .5moa for a $500 factory gun.[/quote]

I agree, there are some customers like that. I just don't get the impression that this is the case here. I could well be wrong, but it's not my first rodeo either. Anyway, Spring is well upon us. May we all enjoy plenty of accurate shooting.