Next Year's 5 Shot Challenge Rifles

[skipper]

Gentlemen...let's keep this civil! Smack talk does nothing to bolster this forum. The proof is in the pudding, shooting 5 shots at a target at a reasonable distance is what these challenges are about. If we shoot a great group at the challenge target on a particular day, we do well in the challenge, period. I for one enjoy this forum because of the helpful nature of the majority of the members, if we descend into the bickering "pit", we may as well become politicians. The challenge should be open to all members of this forum & let the targets speak for themselves. Skipper, thanks for all you do to in conducting these challenges! Lets keep it simple & let the best target win.
OK, I'm off my soap box now, it's time to go cut a Christmas tree, happy holidays to all!

Dilly Dilly!!

[dsandfort]

Less than 1/2 MOA @ 1,000 yards with 40 gr bullets. 5" groups at 1,000 yards. That is some fine shooting. Likely records on many ranges. Close to a world record not too many years ago. Wish I could do that.

[Bill K]

I believe if I could really do that at 1000 yrds, I would be entering some major shoots and having my name in the record book, getting some fine looking trophies and in some cases cash. There are many in those shoots around the world that can not do 10 inches, let alone 5. Bill K

[varget204]

Bii k Any more; most Precision Rifle Shooters are shooting 1/2 Moa at 1000 yardsW/204 it's possible on light wind days around 3 to 8 -9 mph.I can't do it every time ,but way more often than one would think. When the wind gets up to 9-10 +mph the little 40 grainers go Sub-Sonic. when that happens No ONE Knows where bullets are going.I shot 5 more groups at 1000 on 11-22 and 11-24 I'll post next week ,3 were sub 1/2 MOA.My rifles are capeable of shooting in the 0.1's and 0.2's MOA at 100 yards,I know every time i go out and shoot they could shoot bugholes or clover leaf groups.It depends on weather.wind,My eyes.I shot competition for years,trophies are not important to me,Ya can,t spend thropies.I sure would go for shooting other 204 shooters at 1000 yards.Be a lot of Fun.It would certainly open up a lot of eyes,Some of my Bud's are top rated Precision Rifle Shooters ,they keep buggin me to shoot 600 Bench Rest.I just might take them up.I've got a couple of Bench Rest Rests,would have to dig them out.All pictures posted in 2018 have been off B-pod and Protektor 600 yd BR rear bag.Let me know if you need any help to tighten up your groups; I Maybe able to help you out.

[Bill K]

Well I thank you for the offer on my grouping. But I have a couple loads, even one with the lead free bullets I will be using next year to be legal, and they are shooting a good average of 1/2 inch at 100 yrs. I rarely shoot over 450, so they are doing what I want and hitting the targets and small Richardson ground squirrels, rabbits, coyotes and rock chucks that I hunt.
I honestly will be waiting to see a target entered by you in the upcoming 5 shot tourney. It is just a fun shoot, on the honor system, by members here that do want to enter. It is all free and just a fun event between us. Bill K

[dsandfort]

If a rifle groups less than 2" @ 800 yards (1/4 MOA), what do you suppose happens in the next 200 yards to "blow "the groups up to 5" @ 1,000? Shouldn't a 1/4 MOA gun hold that accuracy and produce 2.5" groups. Plus, that bullet is dropping around 400 inches or 40 MOA. My scopes can't handle that.
I suppose at the end of the day, I first need to figure out how to see anything at 1,000 yards.

[varget204]

Just sent you PM w/ some info.I have 20 MOA rail on my rifle,it gets you the elevation you need. I use 8-32x56 mm scopes, I still have about 100 clicks left on mine at 1000 yds. At 800 yds i've got around 160 -165 inches of drop,at 900 it jumps to over 260",At 1000 add another 140-145"Just because a rifle shoots say .2 moa at 100 Does NOT Mean it will at 2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.1000.The 204 was not designed to shoot 1000 YDS,BUT IT'S possible ,thats why drop charts are way off beyond 700 yds.If you ever shoot on windy days you notice how bullets group together at 100 ;they do the same at distance,I shoot thousands of rounds at distance and It's Still Amazing to me how they Hang together.I think thats what so Addictive shooting them that far.

[dsandfort]

I'm really confused. Doesn't 0.2 MOA mean 0.2 MOA? Are you saying the .204 is like the Universe, always expanding? Why in the world would a 0.2 MOA rifle (at 100 yards) become a 0.4 MOA rifle at 400 yards and so on? I understand that some bullets require more distance to stabilize, but, why would the .204R shoot like a tuba as distance increases?

[varget204]

At 100 yds 0.2 moa is .200 of an inch,Wind,weather humidity bar.pressure,temp,all effect bullets,VELOCITY LOSS is the main reason[ at 600 the VEL is still around 1900 to 2000 fps,that's a 17-1800 fps loss. At 1000 yards in Mo where i shoot at 1000-1100 feet elevation, It is just above Sub-Sonic.At 1000 you have to factor in the spin of the Earth also.The only way to tell for sure is to shoot it at different yardages,Multiple times.I get 39 blitz king to shoot about as good as the 40 v-max at 100,The B.K. are starting out in my rifles at 3850 fps the v-max 3685-3788 depending on the above factors.They dropped 100 fps from 90-95 degrees to 55 degrees.The B.K. has a higher BC .287 compared to .275 for v-max.BUT at 700 and beyond, the v-max are hanging in,the B.K. are not.Have Never got B.K. hits at 800 or farther.It.s just like trying out New Loads, same case,same primer,same bullet,Different power Goes from shooting Bugholes all together; to looking like you fired scattergun not worth loading.Get a good Ballistics book or contact Ballistic Expert--- from one of bullet makers. People out west have huge advantage over mid-west do to ELEVATION. At 5000 to 6000 feet above sea level,i would get around 15 -30 " less drop at 1000 yds and pick up 100-250 fps do to thinner air.That's a TON. Hope i didn't confuse you anymore. varget204

[skipper]

Perhaps a picture may help understand MOA. 1 MOA is 1 MOA regardless of the distance.
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MOA.png (92.15 KiB) Viewed 4412 times

[varget204]

Thats correct, most people just round it off to 1" at 100 ,otherwise you need calculator to figure out.

[skipper]

So, if you're shooting 1/4 MOA at 800 yards then you can shoot 1/4 MOA at 100 or 1000 yards? Right? 1/4 MOA is 1/4 MOA regardless of the distance.

[varget204]

have you looked at any of the groups i have posted? There are groups at 100 way less than 1/4 at 100. I Have Not shot a 1/4 moa group at 1000 yards but next year i expect to shoot 1/3 moa I.have come close to a 1/3 moa a bunch of times.Will post recent groups next week shot on 11-22 and 11-23.That's My Goal to shoot a 1/4 moa group at 1000 yards.I would not swear to it but i'm going to give it a Hellva TRY.I need a DEAD Calm day and that rarely happens in MO.The drop out of my guns at 1100 feet above sea level is about 57" at 600,velocity drops to around 1920 to 1975 fps;at 800 bullet drop jumps to 166"velocity drops to about 1450 fps.another big drop at 1000 yds,400-408",velocity is approx 1160 fps.that why it so difficult to get groups .bullets are just above speed of sound which is about 1133 fps.The big change happens after 600 yds with the little bullets.I KNOW what I,m talking about.Like I said IT's what i do shooting 600-1000 w/204 To get farther i had 6.5/284 Norma.I just replaced barrel w/ 6mm creedmoor so i can shoot farther,in most wind conditions. Have you ever shot at 1000 yards.You have to correct windage for Spin of the EARTH.If you don't believe me ASK ANY Precision Rifle Shooter who shoots 1000-1500 yds or 1000 yd Benchrest Shooters.Almost forgot [CRS] i found 5 shot group w/39 Blitz King and 3 shot group at 600 because it started raining,will post them next week also.Can't get them to shoot good past 675 -700yds max.varget204

[skipper]

There's another factor involved in competitive shooting. It's called pressure, intimidation, or just plain nerves. When I shot competitively, I saw a lot of people who could shoot nice small groups when no one else was around. BUT, on the day of competition they fell apart due to intimidation at the event. Too many eyes on them, if you know what I mean? When we hold our annual 5 Shot Challenge the pressure of public scrutiny builds in your mind and members have to deal with it or their scores suffer. So, if you want to earn bragging rights on this forum, you need to register and compete with the rest of us in the 2019 5 Shot Challenge. I've got a bench worthy 204 tight necked rifle built by SG&Y, but that doesn't mean squat if I can't deal with the pressure.

This post was originally intended to post pictures of rifles. I think we have hijacked it for alter intentions. I will let my target do the rest of my talking at next year's 2019 5 Shot Challenge. As Silverfox says, See ya' later

[varget204]

you are right about pressure,I learned to Overcome it over 40 years ago,If a person starts think about pulling 4th,5th shot they are beat from the Start. Will be posting pictures of my Savages next week .I use Gamma Chrony, Brm bipods,protektor 600 yard BR rear bag, Lambeth Bolt Lift Kits. Varmint Match Barrels, 8-32 x 56 scopes I,ll dig out a couple of my Bench Rest Rests. looking at Magneto chronograph, any thought about magneto's