Load Development

[TEXAS222]

Hello & happy holidays to everyone at .204. This has probably been asked several times and I searched old posts without finding the information I was looking for. I'm looking to develop loads in my 20 & 22 caliber new guns and assuming you have the correct bullet for your twist rate, where do you begin? I mean do you start with a chosen bullet & several different powders or several different bullets and a preferred suitable powder? I guess I'm asking do you begin with more different bullets or more powders. All the combinations can be just mind boggling. How important do you feel primers effect accuracy, I assume very little? The 2 new guns I'll be loading for are a .204 & a 222 & I have a bunch of bullets for each & powders. Your thoughts & opinions will be appreciated. Again, have a safe happy holiday season,
Jim D

[jpx2rk]

I'm new to the reloading game, BUT I read a lot of different forums, paying more attention to the calibers I shoot which are 204 & 223. I plan on making some trips out west for pdogs, and chase groundhogs and 'yotes around home, so I focus more on load info pertaining to those types of shooting/hunting than anything else. I look for powders that will work in both calibers to keep the # of powders down to a "reasonable" number, whatever that may be.

For the FV12 204, I've got 32g Vmax and Nosler FBHP's to work with, and then 39g Sierra's since they seem to be so popular/good for the 204. I've got Varget, CFE223, W748 & BLC(2) for powders.

For the 223's, I will use the same powders, but the bullets will go from 40-69g, depending on the rifle. I have a Rem 700 223 12 twist, a FV12 9 twist and a RAR 22" 8 twist. The Rem 700 prefers 40g so far, the FV12 likes 40-55g, and the RAR prefers the 55g Nosler FBHP with 23.0g of Varget.

I'm just starting load development on the FV12 9 twist, but it seems to shoot anything from 40 up to 69 in factory ammo pretty good, so I've got lots of options.

I'm thinking of trying to make the Rem 700 12 twist act like a 204 with light bullets (40g) with similar speeds but I need to do more research on this and the side effects of this could be on the gun & brass.

From my readings, a lot of people just ask for a favorite load for such and such gun with such and such barrel/twist and go from there. I like to spend my time researching, figuring out the whys, and go from there.

[Rick in Oregon]

Jim, this subject can be mind boggeling with all the various component combinations, not to mention quite expensive.

For me, I pick the bullet I want to use in a given rifle for the intended purpose, assuming it is correct for the twist in question. Then after some reading/research, pick two or three powders in the correct burn range that seem to be a consensus among other users and legitimized in the manuals. I start my loads in the mid-range of book loads and go from there. One trip to the range with my chronograph is usually all it takes to decide which powder to pursue with new/different loads with that given bullet. I then tweak the powder charge to find that node the rifle likes, then play with seating depth to find that sweet spot. Three or four range trips usually are all it takes for any given rifle to find it's Pet Load.

This also assumes all brass has been properly prepped; neck turned if needed, trimmed, primer pocket uniformed, flash hole deburred if warranted.

My two given primers for my small calibers are the Rem 7-1/2 and the Fed 205M, so depending on how many of each I have on hand, that settles the primer choice, although some folks spend an inordinate amount of time and money playing with different primers. I've never felt it's worth the effort by the tests I've done in that regard. Any change there seems to be extremely small, if any.

Once the rifle is shooting bugholes, I settle on a given load, then load up a seasons worth of ammo for rat and chuck shooting. With one load to work with, it doesn't take long to "learn" the rifle and that load in the field. With only one load to work with, consistency is the name of the game, and rodents are flying.......literally.

This method has worked for me since 1968. There may be better, more expedient methods, but this is what has worked for me for quite a spell.

[TEXAS222]

Excellent Rick, just what I've been wanting to hear, 1 bullet several powders. You've answered all my thoughts & questions. Thanks & have a safe merry Xmas,
Jim D

[jpx2rk]

Jim, this subject can be mind boggeling with all the various component combinations, not to mention quite expensive.

For me, I pick the bullet I want to use in a given rifle for the intended purpose, assuming it is correct for the twist in question. Then after some reading/research, pick two or three powders in the correct burn range that seem to be a consensus among other users and legitimized in the manuals. I start my loads in the mid-range of book loads and go from there. One trip to the range with my chronograph is usually all it takes to decide which powder to pursue with new/different loads with that given bullet. I then tweak the powder charge to find that node the rifle likes, then play with seating depth to find that sweet spot. Three or four range trips usually are all it takes for any given rifle to find it's Pet Load.

This also assumes all brass has been properly prepped; neck turned if needed, trimmed, primer pocket uniformed, flash hole deburred if warranted.

My two given primers for my small calibers are the Rem 7-1/2 and the Fed 205M, so depending on how many of each I have on hand, that settles the primer choice, although some folks spend an inordinate amount of time and money playing with different primers. I've never felt it's worth the effort by the tests I've done in that regard. Any change there seems to be extremely small, if any.

Once the rifle is shooting bugholes, I settle on a given load, then load up a seasons worth of ammo for rat and chuck shooting. With one load to work with, it doesn't take long to "learn" the rifle and that load in the field. With only one load to work with, consistency is the name of the game, and rodents are flying.......literally.

This method has worked for me since 1968. There may be better, more expedient methods, but this is what has worked for me for quite a spell.

As I stated, I read other forums, but I use manuals as well for my starting loads. I then compare what powders were used in the two loading manuals I have and compare those to the powders I have on hand. I start at the low end of the book loads due to my level of experience (noob/greenhorn). I usually just shoot groups (3-5 shots) as I don't have a chrony, and have 3 or more loads (same bullet but vary the powder charge) and go from there.

Since I'm new at reloading, I figure if I make 2-3 trips to the range to test different loads (mainly powder charges) I can get a bit more practice at the reloading game and more trigger time as well. I usually see one or more guys there I have gotten to know every trip to the range, so it's always fun, and I usually learn something from them as well.

It's good to hear that primers don't make much difference, I've gathered that it boils down to a preference to some extent, but each and every gun is different. I've not tried any Rem 7.5's, they seem to be pretty scarce around here. I've used CCI 400 in the 223's and going to try Fed 205's in the 223 the next time I make up some more 223 loads. I've got CCI BR4 & 450's to try in the 204.

So far I've found 2 loads that the RAR likes, the 55g Nosler FBHP and then the 60g Vmax. It's good to options but I don't know that it would be of any benefit , but I'm having fun anyways.

[TEXAS222]

jpx, thank you for the information. I've got a strange tale to tell you. One of my RRA's is a 24" varmint with a 1-12 twist. It was the only gun I had that day & had been sighting & dialing in a new scope with factory Federal 55 grain ballistic tips, not at all happy with the 100 yard 3 shot 1" groups it was producing. About then my buddy said he wanted to drive to & shoot at our 400 yard range and I wasn't going to sit & watch so I drug out the RRA. Talk about surprised, I shot 5-3 shot groups with the same ammo I'd been using and nothing was over 2" with 2 groups 1 1/2". The lesson I learned from that is that some bullets just don't stabilize with in 100 yards but might do better at longer ranges. That wound up being my go to gun & load for PD's. Go figure. Happy holidays,
Jim D

[jpx2rk]

I've read that FB bullets are more accurate at shorter ranges than BT's, which were you shooting?

[TEXAS222]

I've read that FB bullets are more accurate at shorter ranges than BT's, which were you shooting?

They were the Nosler 55 grain BT ballistic tips.

[MZ5]

I also generally choose a bullet(s) for the intended purpose, and go from there. That said, some barrels are too large for my preferred bullet. Large meaning the diameter of the grooves, or lands and grooves both, may be too large on a given barrel for the bullet I would like to shoot. When that is the case, that bullet will NOT shoot as well as a bullet that is large enough for the groove diameter.

That stuff is pretty 'advanced,' though, so unless there's a problem and I can't get a rifle shooting super-tight, I don't really worry about diameters.

[Jim White]

I follow pretty much what Rick reported;

- Pick a compatible bullet and powder for both the purpose and the rifle. Hopefully, its one that I have already and if not, one that’s available.

- The same goes for cases; and I prep them ahead of time before firing the first shot.

- For the primer I have my favorites and for the small rifle it’s usually a Remington 7 ½ [especially in a gas-gun] although I have the other one that Rick mentioned (FED 205M), I just don’t use it as much.

I’ll go out on a limb a little here and say that primers and/or any change in any of the components can make a difference. IMO, the question one has to ask themselves is “what” is going to be “your” accuracy requirements? A small tweak here and there [more/less neck tension; more /less seating depth; a 1/10th of a grain up/down] can make a difference, both good and bad. It can be the difference between shooting .25 MOA or 1.0 MOA. At 300 yards that’s 0.75” vs 3.0”. The effort and cost to load either is the same. However, I wouldn’t shoot my barrel out trying to do it. If you follow Rick’s advice about “looking for the node and adjusting from there” you’ll be further down the road.

For me, the only bullet/primer/powder combinations I keep testing are those that won’t group to my satisfaction. To date, for me with the 204 Ruger there is 1-bullet that I could not get to shoot to my satisfaction with either of my three 204 Rugers (didn’t try the VT) and, that is the 32-grain Nosler Hollow Point-Flat-Base Varmageddon bullet; with several different powders [Benchmark, RL-10x, RL=15, Varget, H4895, 8208XBR], Otherwise, I’ve had good results.

HTH

[jpx2rk]

Oh no, I've got a box or 2 of those Nosler's to test in my FV12, maybe I'll get "lucky".

[broper]

Don't get disappointed yet. That 32 gr. Varmageddon was the most accurate in my 700 Rem. VLS. Shot a.169 group with BLC(2). Every gun is different. Keep testing to find the best load in your gun, it may not be anything like anybody else's. Have fun and good luck.

[Jim White]

Don't get disappointed yet. That 32 gr. Varmageddon was the most accurate in my 700 Rem. VLS. Shot a.169 group with BLC(2). Every gun is different. Keep testing to find the best load in your gun, it may not be anything like anybody else's. Have fun and good luck.

That's exactly right. I gave these a shot to supplement the 35gr Berger since they're more readily available. There were some good groups but they weren't consistent enough for my liking. I've never tried the Varmageddon bullets with the "ballistic tip" because they too are not readily available. The Nosler 32grain boat tail ballistic-tip boat tails shoot lights out for me in my 20VT.

HTH,

[Rick in Oregon]

I've never tried the Varmageddon bullets with the "ballistic tip" because they too are not readily available. The Nosler 32grain boat tail ballistic-tip boat tails shoot lights out for me in my 20VT.HTH,

Jim, some time back I did an informal test using my 2VT and both the 32gr NBT and their 32gr Varmageddon (NVG) over the same load of RL-7 for an accuracy comparison. I was pleasantly surprised at the results.



I don't think Skippy would be able to tell the difference as his parts were flying off to all points of the compass. Both shoot MOR (Minute of Rat), so I'm quite pleased to shoot either bullet in the rat patch. The best part is that the NVG is quite a bit less expensive, and when you're unloading 500 rounds or so on a good day, your wallet does not whine as much.

TEJAS JD: Sorry for the thread deviation, bud.

[Jim White]

Hi Rick...were those the tipped or hollow-point Varmageddons? If I could ever get my hands on the "tipped" version I'd try them out.

To the OP:

Another area where one can burn components chasing accuracy is the OAL. With magazine fed rifles I will set a certain length a few thousands below the MAX recommended OAL to function reliably from the magazine. Any adjustments to tweak the accuracy in comes from powder charge adjustments primarily and so far I've always found something acceptable.

HTH,