On barrel life, round count, and bullet stabilization

[TwentyBore]

So, the last two times I've taken out my .204 with a factory Savage barrel, my 100 yard groups have been growing. Where it used to shoot in the .5" range, now I can't get it under an inch, and often its more. I also have an occasional "squirrely" round if I'm loading down toward the middle of the range, instead of the top... one shot today went three inches right, and went in partially key-holed. Even with the full-power loads that the rifle likes, and trickled charges, I'm getting occasional flyers that are WAY too far off.

Now, the barrel has 1300 recorded rounds on it, realistically probably 1500-1600. And, my rifle has always shot best right up at max load, or even slightly above, so it's not like it's been babied. And, there have been two or three times that I've really got the barrel hotter than it should be. I'm willing to accept that the barrel may be shot out, or at best, nearly so.

But... on the full-size torso silhouettes today, hitting the "head" at 400 yards was a bore, 500 was a bit more challenge, but I hit it every time, and at 600 yards, I only missed the "head" a couple of times. That makes me wonder if the barrel ISN'T shot out. But, then again, I suppose that perhaps the manner in which the barrel is wearing out may cause the bullet to stabilize later in flight. Or, I could be entirely off, it's not like I'm a pro at any of this.

Anybody have any words of wisdom for me?

[RAMOS]

Not gonna tell you that these are 'words of wisdom' but............. I had a very similar experience with a Savage in 204R several years ago (minus the part about possibly over heating the barrel. This rifle was always accurate until, one day it started grouping very erratically. I had not changed anything, especially the two loads I had been using for about three years. I was at a loss as far as the cause and posted around to tap the brain trust here and elsewhere. Ended up that the barrel had developed a carbon ring a couple inches in front of the chamber. Once I was aware of this possibility, I could feel it when slowly pushing a brush through the bore. Can't say that your problem is the same thing but, it is something to check on. A real bugger to remove but it certainly cured the issue in my case. I would be surprised if your barrel wore out all of a sudden like. Good luck.

[Bill K]

Clean the barrel very, very good and check that the crown has not been damaged, then try a few more round and see if it corrects your issue. If not then a new barrel may be in the works. Bill K

[RowdyYates]

I have a Remington LVSF in .204 that seems to be getting "squirrelly" after only about 500 rounds. Would shoot 40 grainers - even factory loads - real well when new; now groups are opening up with any 39-40 loads I try. Might just be coppered-up, as I haven't tried really cleaning the barrel, or the slightly-worn rifling now won't stabilize them. Am going to load some 35 Bergers when I can find some, as I don't want to step down to 32s.

[TwentyBore]

I appreciate the advice. I will give it an extra good inspection after this cleaning.

[247sniper]

You might want to increase your OAL as your throat could have worn over the shoot count a bit to far. Should check it every few hundred rounds really.

[Duker]

I'm with RAMOS on this one. Have had carbon build up in front of the chamber on both of my 204's and 20 SCC. Give it a good cleaning with something like Butches, Sweets, Wipe out Patch out etc. Then J-B bore compound on a patch over a tight fitting bore brush to remove the carbon. You do have to follow up with with bore solvent patches to clean the bore of J-B.

[TwentyBore]

I'm with RAMOS on this one. Have had carbon build up in front of the chamber on both of my 204's and 20 SCC. Give it a good cleaning with something like Butches, Sweets, Wipe out Patch out etc. Then J-B bore compound on a patch over a tight fitting bore brush to remove the carbon. You do have to follow up with with bore solvent patches to clean the bore of J-B.

I don't have any J-B, but at this point, the bore has spent almost 48 hours straight being soaked in Hoppe's #9 and Wipe-Out, and getting brushed, patched, and having the cleaners re-applied about 10 times over that period. I'll probably keep it up for another 24 hours, then see how things go.

As for OAL, yeah, I'll experiment with going a bit longer.

[wirelessguy2005]

if you are suffering from extreme carbon fouling another thing you might try is Carbout made by the same company that makes Wipe out. Another option if you don't have JB's would be Iosso bore paste or Montana Extreme bore paste, if excessive fouling is your problem any and all of these products should help solve the problem. For future reference once you get the rifle clean and shooting well again its always best to try to clean the barrel while its still warm or as quickly as possible after you are done shooting it. Otherwise if the fouling is left in the barrel it gets hard and is much more difficult to remove.

[TwentyBore]

Well... I might have found the culprit. I went to load another batch of ammo, and noticed... My seater stem had come loose.

[TwentyBore]

Well, the drama continues. I went out yesterday, after cleaning that barrel like no barrel had ever been cleaned before. Two foulers, then started at 400 yards, and owned everything. Went out to 500 yards, first four shots went into 3". Next few, off by a little. Then, I might as well have been using a shotgun. Almost all shots were of by at least a foot, in any direction. Some off by as much as 5-10 feet.

I'm not terribly keen on throwing money at things without proof, but I'm starting to think long and hard about a new barrel for this beast.

Any more wisdom or advice for me?

[RAMOS]

No wisdom but, a question. If a barrel is shot out, why would it be "intermittently accurate"? It's either wore out or it's not...

[wirelessguy2005]

due to the fact that you are seeing problems mainly at longer distances it makes me think that you may be loosing stability shortly after the 450-500 yard mark. It has been well documented that a factory 12 twist barrel at best will only marginally stabilize a 39-40 grain bullet, now consider what happens at 400-500 yards out when you loose speed/rpm. You get a bullet that tends to wonder a lot. Add in the fact that you have overheated the barrel on a couple occasions and its very possible that the barrel has some significant wear in the throat area. Another thing to keep in mind is that Savage factory barrels are known to foul very quickly, that is compounded by the fact that it has seen use at max loads mainly thru its life. A borescope would tell the tale for sure.

Brad