help me decide on next varmint caliber

[fishnbob]

Ok, here is my vamint arsenal 243, 22-250, 204, 20 vt, 19 badger and a couple rimfires

I have been bitten by the cooper bug and will probably have another one before spring. Problem is I cant decide which caliber to get. The two I am considering are 223 something a little less warm then my 22-250 or a 20 tactical to fill the gap between the 204 and 20 vt.

After making the brass for the 20vt I am kinda leanin towards the 223. Not sure I feel like turnin, trimmin, cuttin, burnin and sizin again for awhile. So that might rule out the 20 tac

It will be used for paper punchin(i have access to a 600 yd range)and pd's
Thanks

[Rick in Oregon]

Well Bob, we always like to "help" with such issues.

As you have the 'heavy' varmint calibers covered, and already have two .20's for moderate and longer range applications, faced with the same question, I'd go for a Cooper in .223. I did the exact same thing with a similar caliber lineup, and have never regretted my choice.

The varmint bullet selection for the .224" caliber is the largest of any other. The 223 will also allow more shooting in the rat patch with less time spent barrel cleaning. 223 brass is also the most common, the least expensive and most available, and the caliber is more accurate than most folks realize.

We all know what a Cooper VR looks like, but just for grins, here's my Cooper M21 VR in 223 on the bench with a Leupold VX3 6.5-20X M1 LR mounted low over the bore:



My rifle came to me used with about 800 rounds downrange. After minimal load development and scope mounting, I found the rifle is capable of better performance than I am, routinely grouping the Nosler 40gr BT over my usual load of H335 into less than 1/4" most of the time. Speed runs right at 3,860 fps......with very flat trajectory.

Everyone likes to post their best group, but here's two typical groups shot during load development that illustrate what I'm referring to....."minute of rat" accuracy with almost any load shot through the rifle:



Here's a target shot in the field during a rat shoot to confirm zero upon arriving at the ranch. Field conditions with normal wind, not level terrain and heat prevailed, but still demonstrated accuracy far beyond what's required to launch a rat at 400 yards:



Don't think the 223 is just a "yawn" caliber. If you only had one varmint rifle, this caliber would most likely be the first choice.....at least it would be for me. What's not to like about my standard load of a 40gr BT at 3,860 fps? A Cooper in 223 would be the perfect addtion to your varmint battery. Skippy hates mine, I can attest to that!

Late Edit: Consider this factor also, Bob.....the 223 is to the 22-250, what the 20 Vartarg is to the 204.....a perfect caliber companion.

[futuretrades]

As for all the reasons RIO stated, I would have to agree with him.
I think I would lean more towards the Cooper in .223. Very easy to load, components are usually very available. Lots of different bullets available, in just about any weight you prefer. As far as twist, if you shoot mainly the lighter bullets for targets like pd's, yotes and such, a 11 to 12 twist is great. For the long range targets, I see some very heavy bullets are out there, but I would think maybe a 8 or 9 twist would be better. You may need to make some compromises in that respect. No matter what others think, for me any way, a rifle choice is a very personal thing. Just my 2 cents.

[savageboy23]

I would also go with the .223 in a cooper. I don't personally own a cooper at the moment but I do have a few .223 rifles. As RIO stated brass is common and pretty easy to come buy and bullet selection is a wide array of choices. I personally shoot the 55 gr bullets out of my .223's. I have 1 bolt gun (howa) and 2- ar-15's.

[Jim White]

Never shot varmints with a 223 but I have shot that round out of AR's in highpower competition. It is a solid choice and as previously suggested, I'd get a fast twist barrel, for me it would be an 8-twist; that way you can have rounds that reach out there and fast zippy ones for closer encounters.

[acloco]

..........................

After making the brass for the 20vt I am kinda leanin towards the 223. Not sure I feel like turnin, trimmin, cuttin, burnin and sizin again for awhile. So that might rule out the 20 tac

It will be used for paper punchin(i have access to a 600 yd range)and pd's
Thanks

Sounds like you need a 223 AI in your arsenal. Go with a 1:9 twist - you can shoot bullets from 40 to 75 gr AMax with ease....AND accuracy.

The AI version, does not need any brass prep after initial/normal prep, fireform, trim to length, and keep shooting! 55's at 3600 fps. 68/69's at 3300. 75's at 3150.....all day long.

[Jim White]

For the 223 (not the AI) you need to determine what you're using it for. The 223 is heavily used in highpower competition and because of such it is very versatile (like the 6mm calibers) and offers a wide range of barrel twist and bullet weights.

For the 223, if you're going to shoot bullets consistently weighing 70 grains or higher be aware not all 9-twist barrels will stabilize 75 grain bullets. For 70 grains and below a 9-twist is a good choice. In my competitive days it was not uncommon to shoot 52-grain bullets out of 1-7, 1-7.7 or 1-8 twist barrels at the short lines (200 & 300 yards) and they were very accurate. The velocity may not be as fast because of the twist rate but the accuracy is there.

[fishnbob]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I have today off and I am heading to michiGUN to put my paddies on some guns.
Every one warned me and you were right, I cant even look at other firearms the same way after getting my first cooper.
All my shooting buddies keep making fun of me because I want another one so bad and they keep teling me to save my money and get a savage in 223.
I have savages and I like them very much, as well as my remingtons and my cz but it is something you just cant explain, you have to try a cooper.Maybe they will see the light and stop poking fun when they finally pry it out of my hand and get a chance to shoot it.
223 is what she will be.and my wife says this is the last gun for a while. Im gona miss her

[Rick in Oregon]

Good choice there, Bob. I don't think you'll regret your decision. After you get back from the fondling session, let us know your thoughts or what you bought or ordered. A new rifle is exciting, even when we're not the one getting it.

Oh, and there's just no way you can compare a Cooper to a Savage. To do so is like comparing a Ferrari to a Yugo.....they'll both get you to the store, but which one would you rather drive to get there?

(Sorry acloco.....you knew I'd do that! )

[RAMOS]

I agree with all the Cooper and 223 advice mentioned. However, in this day and age, and not knowing (and not assuming) what your bankroll looks like I would offer one thought... Before plunking down big money for a new rifle and all the associated expenses, make sure you are well stocked up on components for the firearms you already have. It would be terribly frustrating to have nice firearms and nothing to feed them.

[fishnbob]

Ramos
I have enough components to get me through at least 2 years of prairie doggin unless I happen to run into such a heard that I need to call for back up.

And now for the news
I came home with a new baby today. I through a bushnell on her because that's what i had already at home(robbed it off another gun until I have the funds to get a leupy)
Now the bad news. Just got another 7 inches of snow and it is still coming down, so dont know when I will get her to the range
Pictures coming soon

[fishnbob]

[fishnbob]

Sorry my photos aren't as good as RIO's but computers are not my strong suit

[Bill K]

Sorry my photos aren't as good as RIO's but computers are not my strong suit

They are there and you are sharing your new baby.. Thank you. Bill K

[Jim White]

Outstanding...