Free bore of new barrel.

[sharptailhunter]

I just bought a Criterion barrel for my Savage FV12. Criterion is Krieger's button cut division. It's a hand lapped match grade barrel. I finally got around to being able to create some loads for it that I can hopefully take to the range on Monday, weather permitting.

I noticed tonight that the free bore is much shorter in the new barrel. Here's some numbers from my Hornady LnL case gauge. I used a 32gr V-Max for my first loads. Note, these are measured to the OGIVE and not primer to bullet tip and I present them just out of interest not for anyone to follow. This is my chamber, go get your own

Factory Sav. varmint barrel resulted in an overall cartridge length of 2.033" with the bullet touching the lands.
Criterion barrel resulted in an overall length of 1.956" with the same bullet, again touching the lands.
2.033"-1.956"= 0.077" difference. The significance of that is with the factory barrel, the free bore seemed almost excessive. Nosler 32 gr bullets wouldn't even stay in the case if I wanted em touching the lands. The new barrel obviously will allow for a good case grip on the bullet and still offer a smaller jump to the lands.

I measured a factory Remington 40 gr round, again using the ogive. It offered a length of 1.888". So, in the factory barrel, that bullet was jumping roughly 0.145" before it hit the lands. In the new barrel, the factory round is only 0.068" off the lands, approximately, since I don't have a loose Remington bullet to be absolutey sure. That being said, I'm not sure how much these little bullets differ ogive to ogive by brand.

Long story short, the new chamber definitely seems snug. I'm curious to see the headspace measurements, especially after I pull the plug on a set of Redding dies. More importantly, I'm anxious to see how well it shoots, especially the heavier bullets as this new barrel has a 1:11 twist.

[Sth Oz Dan]

I'd be interested to hear some more Base to ogive (or OAL) measurements with 32 v-max touching the lands from other members.
Having just recently got my Hornady OAL guage, I've been busy checking all the bullets I have in My factory Ruger Hawkeye Ultralight.
Seems it's even shorter than your new one sharptailhunter.
With 32 V-Max, B-O length (touching lands) is 1.937" which gives OAL of 2.304". So I can touch the lands with rounds that will fit my mag!
Same for 40 V-max.

Not sure if this is a good thing considering the general consensus is that the 204 loves a jump, but that's something I'll have to test.

Anyone know if this is typical of Ruger 204's?

[sharptailhunter]

Not sure if this is a good thing considering the general consensus is that the 204 loves a jump, but that's something I'll have to test.

I'm curious about how much of a jump my new barrel will like. Of course, one can seat the bullet deeper. The only problem I see is if one was using a voluminous powder at higher loads, thus getting close to running into compressed loads.

You pointed out one of the benefits though, being closer to the lands and still being able to fit in a magazine for some models of rifle, i.e. shorter overall length but closer still to the lands... if your 204 likes that

[MARK25-06]

sharptailhunter. did you get your barrel from jim? i ordered mine last monday, i called today and he said it was leaving as we spoke. nice barrel? why did you change your barrel? i stopped on my way home and ordered a new 12fcv 204. pick it up friday morning. i have been shooting a model 11 with a sporter barrel. i just wanted a bigger barrel for heat. problems with the factory barrel? thanks MARK25-06

[sharptailhunter]

Mark,

Yup I got it from Jim. I don't know exactly what was going on with my factory barrel. It used to shoot the 39gr BKs really well, then it started to key hole a lot with em. It would copper foul after about 4-6 shots. I would spend literally days getting it all out only to have it foul right away. It's ok though, I bought it used and got a lot of good groups and a lot good varmint hits out of it.

I wanted a new barrel with a 1:11 twist anyway so I could shoot the 40 gr Vmax at coyotes. I took it out to the range today for the first shots. It went really well. I didn't take my camera but I brought home the targets to measure the groups. I was impressed seeing how I was really just trying to break in the barrel a little before I started trying to find some loads for it. I'll post pictures a little later. But, I'm happy with it and with Jim, he's a great guy to work with.

[Duker]

Hi, new to the Forum and the 204. Recently purchased a Savage Model 11 with 3 boxes of factory Hornady 32 gr. VMAX to break in and have fresh brass for reloading. I was surprised and hopefully not to be disappointed at the free bore number measured with a Hornady LNL. Ogive to lands measure .163. For someone used to reloading 22's in the .010 to .015 area for best accuracy. I too am very interested in hearing from others on this subject.

[Rick in Oregon]

Duker, welcome to the forum, and congrats on the new stick...you're gonna love your 204.

Don't fret about the seemingly excessive freebore in your new rifle. This is typical for all factory 204R chambers, and was deemed necessary at the design onset to get the high velocities with acceptable pressure levels with the new round. All factory rifles have this freebore, and most shoot quite well despite it.

If you check in the Loads section, you'll see OAL's all over the map. Some seat their bullets out longer to get closer to the lands, then need to deal with magazine box restrictions or shoot singleshot, but some rifles shoot just as well with jump in the .120" range....amazing I know, but typical of the breed.

Good luck with the new rifle.

[sharptailhunter]

Duker, that is a lot of free bore. But, some of my best groups came with my factory Remington ammo so the free bore stuff, in the 204 at least, seems to be an enigmatic thing still. The only bullets I had a hard time seating deep enough and still being close to the lands were the Nosler 32 gr. The 39 and 40 gr bullets by various other brands offer a little more length to work with.

A side not is that not many people have been happy with the Hornady brass. You have it so you can try it. I have had good luck with my Remington brass, although it has taken some prep work to get it where I like it. The Norma brass I bought is sweet. Right out of the box it was perfect.

[Rick in Oregon]

sharptail: My custom M700 204R 11-twist was cut with a chamber similar to the SCN 204 Match chamber, cut with .015" freebore, and a .230" (no-turn) neck, and with either 32gr of 39/40gr bullets, I can easily touch the lands if wanted.

My best accuracy with this chamber cut "normally" as most other CF match rifle chambers, came with bullets seated roughly .020" off the lands, depending on bullet brand and ojive of course.

Some of my other .20 cal rifles seem to thrive on .080" jump....go figure. You'll never know until you play with seating depth, and what you find may surprise you.......it did me.

[sharptailhunter]

RIO, whenever I try a new load I empirically seat 0.020" off the lands. Once I find a powder charge that gives me a fairly tight group, I will then adjust seating depths with that charge. I've never had a jump more than 0.050" but it would be interesting to take em a little farther, say to 0.080", to see what happens. Usually what would happen is that around 0.020-0.030" was the sweet spot and then everything seated deeper the groups would start to open up.

I'm sure there are better ways of doing it. In fact, if you think of all the variables and combinations of components and techniques it's amazing that we can find loads that our guns like. In reality, one could load different seating depths for every different powder charge interval in a recommended load range. Then you factor in the brand of bullet, brass, and/or primer and you've just opened a Pandora's box of reloading conundrums.

[Sth Oz Dan]

As with powder variations (usually more than one accuracy node), could there be more than one seating depth that tightens groups?

[Hedge]

Yup!

[jo191145]

Yup!

Yup +1

[MARK25-06]

sharptailhunter..... i ,got my new barrel from jim thursday. the freebore is the same as yours within .002"and on my new 12fcv, its within .004". i had allready loaded 30 for each by your specs. just had to bump them back a hair. thanks for the specs. by the way.i loaded 25 gr. of rl10x and 40gr. v-max. first one out was 3" to the right, next 8 were 1.5" group. i cleaned it, maybe 6 patches of montana, 3 dry, then lockease. the next were all touching, i shot 5 5shot groups all touching ,perfect same as the last barrel i got from jim. very happy, heading out to longer range sat, again thanks MARK25-06

[sharptailhunter]

Mark, I'm happy that your new barrel is working out for you. I've been very please with mine. I've put just shy of a hundred rounds through it. I love how easily it cleans. Just a couple of patches and they're coming out clear. The accuracy has been stellar. Unfortunately our nice weather has ended so I can't be at the range trying some new loads. Thanks for the tip on the RE-10x and the 40gr V-Max. I have some 10x in the dropper ow because I just loaded some 32 and 39gr Sierras. I'll load up some 40s with the 10x and see if I get similar results to yours.