Long Range "Come-Ups"
- Rick in Oregon
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Long Range "Come-Ups"
It's no secret that my crew and I like to shoot PD's and ground squirrels at extended ranges. To make LR repeatable hits, you must know the values of your particular load via a chronograph and a ballistics program. The system is what I call "Dial-A-Rat", and works quite well.
Besides the actual drop in MOA to the limit of the cartridges range, I now also put wind dope for a 10mph full-value crosswind next to the drop value. If less wind, reduce hold-off (or less clicks if you dial wind...I don't), If less than full value, reduce accordingly for the condition at hand. Laser the target or general area you'll be shooting, refer to 'come-up' chart, dial value into the elevation turret (I use Leupold M1 turrets) hold dead-on, allow for wind if needed and shoot. It's a first-shot hit almost every time clear out to those 'extended ranges' we all like to shoot.
Using this method, we've made first shot head shots on squirrels or PD's peeking over their mound or out of their burrow at over 350 yards and full body hits on squirrels past 500.....works quite well and usually just sucks them right out of their hole. Here's a shot of my Cooper M21 VR in 223 Rem with the 'come-up' chart as mentioned with both drop and wind correction in MOA:
I use this system on all my CF rifles, varmint and game getters. The critical piece of gear to pull these shots off is a laser rangefinder. It cannot be done without one, even with a mil-dot system as the targets are just too small and don't hold still long enough to use that system. Once you're dialed with this system, your first shot hits will improve at extended ranges and the rats will fly......just like this:
We've never wondered about the performance of the SBK, V-Max or BT, but here's proof that these little poly-tipped bullet really DO blow up upon contact with small rodents at about any reasonable range:
That particular rat launched about 25' into the air, the two halves rotating in different directions....quite a spectacular scene, courtesy of a 32gr SBK from my Cooper MTV 204 at 4,060 fps at 322 yards. It HAD to hurt.....but only for a second. (That IS his spine hanging out of the carcass)
The whole point of this though, is that to make those LR shots way out there with the first shot, you need a system to pull it off on a regular basis, and this is what works for us. Just thought I'd share it with the 204 crew again. Tick-tock, almost time to rock (again........how long till spring?)
Besides the actual drop in MOA to the limit of the cartridges range, I now also put wind dope for a 10mph full-value crosswind next to the drop value. If less wind, reduce hold-off (or less clicks if you dial wind...I don't), If less than full value, reduce accordingly for the condition at hand. Laser the target or general area you'll be shooting, refer to 'come-up' chart, dial value into the elevation turret (I use Leupold M1 turrets) hold dead-on, allow for wind if needed and shoot. It's a first-shot hit almost every time clear out to those 'extended ranges' we all like to shoot.
Using this method, we've made first shot head shots on squirrels or PD's peeking over their mound or out of their burrow at over 350 yards and full body hits on squirrels past 500.....works quite well and usually just sucks them right out of their hole. Here's a shot of my Cooper M21 VR in 223 Rem with the 'come-up' chart as mentioned with both drop and wind correction in MOA:
I use this system on all my CF rifles, varmint and game getters. The critical piece of gear to pull these shots off is a laser rangefinder. It cannot be done without one, even with a mil-dot system as the targets are just too small and don't hold still long enough to use that system. Once you're dialed with this system, your first shot hits will improve at extended ranges and the rats will fly......just like this:
We've never wondered about the performance of the SBK, V-Max or BT, but here's proof that these little poly-tipped bullet really DO blow up upon contact with small rodents at about any reasonable range:
That particular rat launched about 25' into the air, the two halves rotating in different directions....quite a spectacular scene, courtesy of a 32gr SBK from my Cooper MTV 204 at 4,060 fps at 322 yards. It HAD to hurt.....but only for a second. (That IS his spine hanging out of the carcass)
The whole point of this though, is that to make those LR shots way out there with the first shot, you need a system to pull it off on a regular basis, and this is what works for us. Just thought I'd share it with the 204 crew again. Tick-tock, almost time to rock (again........how long till spring?)
Last edited by Rick in Oregon on Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
Always nice to read and have good information. Thank you Rick.. Bill K
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
RIO, thanks for sharing the tips and pics. I lke the chart in the scope cap idea, it's always close by that way. Not sure I could read it up close. I used chrono data and published BC's along with JBM's calculator for my charts. I was only able to verify them to 200 yards before my trip home to South Dakota last fall. They were pretty close but real-world was definitely different than calculated. Difference between practice and theory I suppose.
Heavy winds every day made trips to PD towns an interesting event when we weren't bow hunting. I printed mine on heavy "cover stock" and laminated them with shipping tape. One side was 32 SBK, the other was 39. Not much difference between the two. Also did the same thing for .243 with 70 gr Nosler BT's and 87 gr V-Max. Punch a hole near the top and tie around the scope with a piece of string and call it good. Heavy winds every day made trips to PD towns an interesting endeavour when we weren't bow hunting.
Who makes that scope ring with the level?
This looks like crap in the browser, need to figure how to post it formatted correctly.
.204 Ruger, 32 gr BK @ 3840 fps, 100 yd zero
Range Drop Wind
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA)
100 0 0 1 1
125 -0.1 -0.1 1.7 1.3
150 -0.4 -0.2 2.4 1.5
175 -0.9 -0.5 3.3 1.8
200 -1.6 -0.8 4.4 2.1
225 -2.7 -1.1 5.7 2.4
250 -4 -1.5 7.2 2.7
275 -5.6 -1.9 8.8 3.1
300 -7.6 -2.4 10.7 3.4
325 -9.9 -2.9 12.7 3.7
350 -12.6 -3.4 15.1 4.1
375 -15.7 -4 17.6 4.5
400 -19.3 -4.6 20.4 4.9
425 -23.4 -5.3 23.6 5.3
450 -28.1 -6 27 5.7
475 -33.4 -6.7 30.7 6.2
500 -39.3 -7.5 34.7 6.6
525 -46 -8.4 39.2 7.1
550 -53.5 -9.3 44 7.6
575 -61.8 -10.3 49.2 8.2
600 -71.1 -11.3 54.8 8.7
Heavy winds every day made trips to PD towns an interesting event when we weren't bow hunting. I printed mine on heavy "cover stock" and laminated them with shipping tape. One side was 32 SBK, the other was 39. Not much difference between the two. Also did the same thing for .243 with 70 gr Nosler BT's and 87 gr V-Max. Punch a hole near the top and tie around the scope with a piece of string and call it good. Heavy winds every day made trips to PD towns an interesting endeavour when we weren't bow hunting.
Who makes that scope ring with the level?
This looks like crap in the browser, need to figure how to post it formatted correctly.
.204 Ruger, 32 gr BK @ 3840 fps, 100 yd zero
Range Drop Wind
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA)
100 0 0 1 1
125 -0.1 -0.1 1.7 1.3
150 -0.4 -0.2 2.4 1.5
175 -0.9 -0.5 3.3 1.8
200 -1.6 -0.8 4.4 2.1
225 -2.7 -1.1 5.7 2.4
250 -4 -1.5 7.2 2.7
275 -5.6 -1.9 8.8 3.1
300 -7.6 -2.4 10.7 3.4
325 -9.9 -2.9 12.7 3.7
350 -12.6 -3.4 15.1 4.1
375 -15.7 -4 17.6 4.5
400 -19.3 -4.6 20.4 4.9
425 -23.4 -5.3 23.6 5.3
450 -28.1 -6 27 5.7
475 -33.4 -6.7 30.7 6.2
500 -39.3 -7.5 34.7 6.6
525 -46 -8.4 39.2 7.1
550 -53.5 -9.3 44 7.6
575 -61.8 -10.3 49.2 8.2
600 -71.1 -11.3 54.8 8.7
- RAMOS
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
inKY: The level is seperate from the rings. You can get centered (as pictured) or offset for 1" & 30mm tubes. Don't know where Rick got his but, Sinclair Int. has them.
Rick: That chart is one of the biggest reasons I have a chrono on order. By the way, did you save that back-strap or leave it for the raptors?
Rick: That chart is one of the biggest reasons I have a chrono on order. By the way, did you save that back-strap or leave it for the raptors?
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
Geez, my eyes are worse than I thought...RAMOS wrote:inKY: The level is seperate from the rings. You can get centered (as pictured) or offset for 1" & 30mm tubes. Don't know where Rick got his but, Sinclair Int. has them.
- bow shot
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
Beautiful, Rick! I was hoping you'd post this!
- RAMOS
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
inKy, you can get levels that are also the top half of the rings. You can even get it with a built in inclinometer. Way more money than I could ever justify though!
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
One other tid-bit and that is not only wind velocity but also the angle of the wind, and more often than not, it shifts around. One can always get a direction and velocity from the local weather station but the terrain also has to be taken into consideration when trying to figure things out. Also, everytime you swivel your bench (if you have one) the angle changes.
When in unfamilair areas one of the first things I do is slightly blur the scope or binoculars and watch the wind for a few minutes looking for the lull/shift patterns. It's a lot like a sine wave, it has it stong and weak cycles in both velocity and direction.
HTH
When in unfamilair areas one of the first things I do is slightly blur the scope or binoculars and watch the wind for a few minutes looking for the lull/shift patterns. It's a lot like a sine wave, it has it stong and weak cycles in both velocity and direction.
HTH
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
Excellent idea Rick. Having that info on the spot would be priceless - just dial in and let the fun begin.
Must look into getting a range finder.
Looking forward to reports (and pics) from the upcoming massacres
Must look into getting a range finder.
Looking forward to reports (and pics) from the upcoming massacres
- Sidewinderwa
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
There are some good programs to make this "come up" chart. I like the G-7 ballistic program.
http://www.gseven.com/ballistic-program
You can get a small chart for your rifle or ammo box or a full page chart with more information.
http://www.gseven.com/ballistic-program
You can get a small chart for your rifle or ammo box or a full page chart with more information.
Please, no Sidewinder today!
- Rick in Oregon
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
Not the best shot to illustrate, but this shows the Sinclair Offset Scope Level on my M700 11-twist 204. I prefer the offset levels for "bench-only" guns, and the standard or straight level for rifles that see both bench and field carry.
I usually get these levels from Sinclair Intl., and am using Sierra Infinity 6.0 for the charts, but any good ballistics program will suffice for making custom charts tailored to your rifle/load.
Jim White: Besides your out of focus trick, I usually have a spotting scope to read the mirage/wind in the same way. I usually also put out wind flags when we're shooting PD's or squirrels, and that eliminates any wind excuses.
Ramos: As is our custom, we left the t-bones, backstraps, fillet migons and even stew meat for the raptors. Last year we had a total of a full dozen bald eagles waiting to be fed, sitting atop the irrigation pivot pipes looking hungry. It's part of our EORFS motto: No Raptors go Hungry!"
A better shot of one of my come-up charts, this one on my Cooper M38 VR in 20 VarTarg that shows both drop and wind in MOA:
One thing to keep in mind if making a chart for your rifle/load.....the environmental conditions entered into your program will only be "on" for the altitude and general weather/temp conditions for one spot/location. When making up a chart, be sure it's tailored to the place you'll be shooting, plus the average temp and baro pressure readings. It's a proven system, but is only accurate if the proper data is used to make the charts.
I usually get these levels from Sinclair Intl., and am using Sierra Infinity 6.0 for the charts, but any good ballistics program will suffice for making custom charts tailored to your rifle/load.
Jim White: Besides your out of focus trick, I usually have a spotting scope to read the mirage/wind in the same way. I usually also put out wind flags when we're shooting PD's or squirrels, and that eliminates any wind excuses.
Ramos: As is our custom, we left the t-bones, backstraps, fillet migons and even stew meat for the raptors. Last year we had a total of a full dozen bald eagles waiting to be fed, sitting atop the irrigation pivot pipes looking hungry. It's part of our EORFS motto: No Raptors go Hungry!"
A better shot of one of my come-up charts, this one on my Cooper M38 VR in 20 VarTarg that shows both drop and wind in MOA:
One thing to keep in mind if making a chart for your rifle/load.....the environmental conditions entered into your program will only be "on" for the altitude and general weather/temp conditions for one spot/location. When making up a chart, be sure it's tailored to the place you'll be shooting, plus the average temp and baro pressure readings. It's a proven system, but is only accurate if the proper data is used to make the charts.
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Re: Long Range "Come-Ups"
I do the same as rick with come up charts only i tape to stock and use the nightforce programm with hand held pc that way i can enter current conditions. Also use wind gauge the caldwel. Got nightforce program form midway usa around 70$ and wind gauge about 30$. Makes first round hits almost a gimmy.