Does this exist as a non wildcat?

[jrwoitalla]

The 221fireball necked down to 20cal or 17cal? If so what is it called? Would it have any advantage over the 17Hornet? Is that what the 19 Badger is made from? Just wondering.

[Glen]

The 20 VarTarg should give a substantial increase in performance with the 35gr Bergers over the 17Hornet & the 17M4 .

[Glen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball

[ab_bentley]

The 221fireball necked down to 20cal or 17cal? If so what is it called? Would it have any advantage over the 17Hornet? Is that what the 19 Badger is made from? Just wondering.

No, it's only in a Wildcat form. The 20-221 and 17-221 are both current reamers but you'll find it offers nothing over the 20VT or 17FB/M4. Adam

[Bill K]

The 221fireball necked down to 20cal or 17cal? If so what is it called? Would it have any advantage over the 17Hornet? Is that what the 19 Badger is made from? Just wondering.

As some have mentioned, and I repeat, the 221 Fireball necked to .20 is called a 20 VarTarg (varmint-target) and is a wildcat. You form and make your own ammo (so far) from 221 Fireball cases. The 17 Fireball is a Reminton Factory case, basically a 221 fireball case necked down to .177 cal. So it is now a factory case.
Both would and will be faster and have better range that the .17 Hornet, due to the hornet's smaller and weaker case, at this point in time. I believe the Badger is a 30 carbine case necked up. But Goggle it up and/or wait til someone post's re. the Badger and knows for sure. Bill K

[Rick in Oregon]

Bill is correct, the .19 Badger is based on a reworked .30 Carbine case.

Just for the sake of comparison, below is a 204 Ruger alongside a 20 VarTarg. Both are loaded with 32gr SBK's:



If you think in terms of powder capacity, the 204 has roughly a 30gr case capacity, the 20VT has roughly a 20gr capacity. From that, you can extrapolate the velocity relationship between the two. The Hornet case has about a 14gr case capacity, and that depends on the powder used, and as such, generates much less potential velocity than the Fireball case used for the 17 and 22 cal Fireballs, as well as the 20 VarTarg.

Here's why the VarTarg has the "Targ" in it's name:



Excellent speed AND accuracy from a measley 18grs of powder. The real bonus is very little barrel heat with these rounds....you can shoot for extended periods without cooling or cleaning as is necessary with the larger capacity cases like the 204R. Add the fact that I use my 20VT on ground squirrels and rock chucks to the 500 yard mark, and you can easily see the allure of these small case varmint calibers....speed, accuracy AND efficiency.

[Bill K]

That is something I have really noticed and like about the 20VT, Rick. Even compared to the 204R, I can blaze away and that barrel just does not heat as the others do. Especially my 22-250 and even the 223. It is one super fine shooting cartridge and I am so glad I was talked into getting one, by you and others, to add to my den. Bill K

[jrwoitalla]

How do you form your brass for the Vartarg and what weight bullets do you shoot most often? Did you use the CZ action to build your Vartarg? Calhoon claims the 19cal is more efficient than the 20cal. Do you agree with him about that? Is it half a dozen of one six of another? Sure would be fun to see them compared side by side.

[Bill K]

That is one very nice feature of the 20VT compared to the other/s. The 221FB case is ran into the 20VT resize die and there is the case ready for preping/reload. I personally prefer the 32 grain bullets. i.e. Nosler & Sierra. I do shoot a fair number of the Dogtown(Nosler made) 34 grain, for general shooting, rabbits, etc. The cost is less, when you do not need the same precision of the others.
I also have been using RL7 and H4198 mostly. I have not experience with the Calhoon's, so can not comment on them. But again, personally will stick with the 204 calibers. Bill K