Your thoughts on AO for a .17 HMR

[jrwoitalla]

Shrutester- I don't know if any of the other fellers mentioned it as I didn't completely read all of their replies. You stated you wanted an AO scope for the longer shots. AO is in fact for the closer shots-for parallax adjustment. At least that is my understanding. That is why most cf rifles for bigger game wear non adjustable scopes-because most shots are beyond the range where parallax is an issue. All of my rifles are decked out with AO optics because they are all varmint weapons with ground squirrels being 99.9% of their carnage...shots range from as close as 10yds (in the early spring), out to and beyond 300yds. As the others posted, I don't worry about parallax, I just focus on my target. My biggest concern comes more from the close shots than the far ones as I'm not always certain if I'm going to hit high or low when shooting at say 17yds when zeroed for 200yds with my 204.
BTW-a really decent scope for $199 right now is available at Natchez...the Nitrex 6-20x50AO. My Tikka 223 is topped with one and I think it is my best scope regardless of price, but I don't have any Leupolds(which I truly admire). The numbers on the my Nitrex's objective actually match the true distances focused on. I wish I needed another scope, I'd scoop another Nitrex up in a heartbeat. Or you could buy my used Nikon from me which is built like a tank but the optics aren't as sharp as I like.

[Jim White]

AO is in fact for the closer shots-for parallax adjustment. At least that is my understanding.

Maybe I'm not following you but I would think parallax adjustments (AO/SF) is for the longer shots. Most scopes 12x and higher have this function. If your fixed power scope (probably set @ 150 yds) is used @ 600 yards, parallax is going to rise it's ugly head especially on a 6" target.

If I read correctly, you mentioned something along the lines of using your 204 (sighted @ 200 yds) at 17 yards. IMO, the cats "meow" for that situation is Leupolds 6.5-20x40 E.F.R scope. On 20x I can adjust the parallax down to 10 meters (IIRC). Every now and then you can pick them up used but they don't last too long because that have them really like them. Next time I can I'm going to snag one for my 17 HMR.

HTH

[Rick in Oregon]

Maybe I'm not following you but I would think parallax adjustments (AO/SF) is for the longer shots.

You're following fine Jim, that's correct in all regards, and it's why AO/SF is found on scopes intended for long range.

17 Yards?........that's when I draw my pistol!

[Jim White]

17 Yards?........that's when I draw my pistol!

Exactly........

[jrwoitalla]

Here is a quote as to what the term parallax means as found in Wikipedia-Parallax is an apparent displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines. The term is derived from the Greek παράλλαξις (parallaxis), meaning "alteration". Nearby objects have a larger parallax than more distant objects when observed from different positions, so parallax can be used to determine distances.
Please note that it states nearby objects have a larger parallax than distant ones. I think, however; that when one uses high powered scopes parallax can become apparent due the magnification even though there is in fact less parallax. One can easily observe parallax in the comfort of his/her livingroom by picking a spot across the room, hold up your thumb under that spot and close your right eye. Keep your thumb in that exact same spot, now close your left eye and open your right eye, you will see that the spot you chose will seem to have moved. That is due to the fact your eyes are not in the same position. Now do the same with an object a few hundred yards away, it will seem to move only a little bit if any at all, repeat again with a star in the sky at night, it will not move even one micron.
I stick to my guns-parallax adjustment is for close shooting more than for distant which is in fact what the Leupold EFR scope was engineered for-that's why it is so popular amongst the air rifle enthusiasts of which I am one and of whom edumacated me all about parallax. I could still be wrong and will gladly concede should the evidence be served. I don't like being a stick in the mud and don't think I'm a flaming you all, I'm a school teechur, I gots to start teaching the yunguns tomorrow, maybe I'm just practicing, and I'm serious about being proven wrong. I'm wrong more times before 9am than most folks are in an entire day.

[jrwoitalla]

I have done a bit more research and have found out that even though there is less parallax at further distances group sizes can become much bigger with non parallax adjusted scopes due to the distances shot. A 50 yd shot not adjusted for parallax may only be an inch off target due to distance from the target even though aim may indeed be further off target and when shooting out to say 350yds and having a non parallax adjusted sight picture with a scope that was originally set for 150yds then there is a 250yd magnification of the parallax problem which can take the shooter many inches off target. The upshot- parallax adjustment is important for both close and far shooting- especially when shooting at whee little skippy. When the kill zone is 0.5" and not 5" or 12" it makes a huge difference and thats the real reason the 7mags and 300h&h's don't have parallax adjustment scopes. They don't need it when they have a kill zone thats a hundred times bigger than the entire size of the squirrels we are shooting at. My apologies for any uppidiness.

[Rick in Oregon]

jr: Despite all your research into the quandry of parallax, it remains standard in the shooting world to have parallax adjustments on scopes meant for LONG RANGE (such as any of the Leupold LR 6.5-20X's on my rat rifles).

On the contrary, scopes intended for short range, dangerous game and the like, do not have parallax adjustments, as they are intended for SHORT RANGE (such as the Leupold 1.5-5X's on my elk rifles).

Do not confuse EFR* with parallax; I'm an airgun shooter too and know the difference. (*Extended Focus Range)

End of discussion for me.

[jrwoitalla]

Rick, I completely agree with you and think we are seeing eye to eye. Never did confuse focus with parallax. I do see now how parallax adjustment is important in the varmint and target arenas and see my misunderstanding for long distance shooting. The scope manufacturers aren't always clear in the markings on the scopes and in the instructions with their equipment concerning this subject. When shooting skippy, and when the shooting is fast and furious, I often don't stop and adjust my scope out in the field. When I miss on the long shots(more often than I care to admit) I either blame the wind or my pulling off target. It has been such a long time since I had considered parallax a culprit that in the future I will have to add that to my list of variables to once again take into account. Perhaps that will help me with my shots out past 300yds. Only problem is I don't have a range longer than 230yds to practice on. Please don't let your frustration with me stop you from educating me. I can see now where I was wrong. But I really do want to learn and am willing to be shown the error of my ways and have a lot of fun with these discussions. It's like sitting in a coffee house yelling at each other in a friendly sort of way. You should see the old timers go at it at my shooting range, mud slingin one minute, best friends the next