Spring Varmints & 204's (Pics)

[Lenard]

Hey Rick, heading out in the morning for Burns. Looks like we might get a day or so of good shooting. Taking the Tac 20 along with my Hornet. Hoping we don't get blown off the fields.

[Jim White]

Thanks Rick. I've got the 6mm Remington all tuned up for this years outing. The reason I asked about the 6mmBR is because I have a spare 6mm Krieger Barrel Blank, 1-8, 5R rifling, that will probably be used on my target rifle in a switch barrel set up. I just need to figure out which chamber.

The 6mm Remington is one heck of a target cartridge (and varmints too) but the downside is, no one except Remington & Winchester makes brass for it. Lately, I haven't been happy with either one of those. I could spring for some RWS 7x57 Mauser and neck down but that stuff is speennndy.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I'm looking FWD to my outing next month with my two boys.

Thanks again for sharing,

Jim

[Rick in Oregon]

The reason I asked about the 6mmBR is because I have a spare 6mm Krieger Barrel Blank, 1-8, 5R rifling, that will probably be used on my target rifle in a switch barrel set up. I just need to figure out which chamber.

Jim - Another alternative for a 6mm chambering is the .243 Win or .243 Ackley with that Krieger barrel, and as with the 6mmBR, still be able to use Lapua brass but have a longer range capability if that's a factor. Just a thought.....

[Jim White]

The reason I asked about the 6mmBR is because I have a spare 6mm Krieger Barrel Blank, 1-8, 5R rifling, that will probably be used on my target rifle in a switch barrel set up. I just need to figure out which chamber.

Jim - Another alternative for a 6mm chambering is the .243 Win or .243 Ackley with that Krieger barrel, and as with the 6mmBR, still be able to use Lapua brass but have a longer range capability if that's a factor. Just a thought.....

Thats true and, as RayP pointed out, grab some Norma 7x57 Brass and make some 6mm Remington from that. I think I'd prefer Lapua but Norma is pretty good stuff too. Of course there is RWS but @ $25 for 20-cases plus shipping, that gets spendy real quick. For me to go that route that RWS (and I've only heard about it (never tried it)) should be primo stuff and last a long time.

As always, thanks for the tip.

Jim

[ryutzy]

I hear that the Norma 7X57 is the way to go and I will be trying this someday. Check out this link. Richard Franklin uses the Norma 7X57 in his 6MM AI. One day I will have this exact gun listed at this site. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek042.html

I've been talking with Tommy (who has taken over Richards gun making business as Richard retired Jan 1st) about making me this exact gun. I decided that I will put off the Cooper .243AI for now and I'll be going with the 6MM AI instead. The only thing different is I'll be putting a 12 twist on her to shoot the 87 vmax as well. Check out John's site. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek042.html

I figure this gun oughta make red mist!

[Jim White]

I've read this article too and no doubt it is a mister. Good luck on the project. As far as the 7x57 (for a 6mm Remington) that has to be they way to go. I will confess though (through this same site) the 6mm definetly has plenty to offer be it a 243, 6mm, 6XC, 6mmBR or a host of others.

Jim

[Rick in Oregon]

Jim: There's more exotic offerings in 6mm bore, but back in '98 when I built my LR prairie dog rifle, I opted for the .243 Ackley Improved and have never looked back. Excellent velocities using from 70gr BT's to the excellent 105gr A-Max using my 10-twist Pac-Nor Super Match barrel in a Holland-built blueprinted M700 V-Block rifle.

I've managed PD's out just past 840 yards with it, pretty sure I could score further on rock chucks:



Nothing fancy here, just an improved case....less body taper, better shoulder angle, more horsepower and better accuracy to boot:



The improved case just looks "right", at least to me. Give it some thought before you launch your 6mm project.

[Jim White]

Hi Rick;

I have thought about the 243/243 AI case. It has everything going for it, good brass (Laupa, Norma, Nosler), good dies, good bullets and good ballistics. The only down side is barrel life, or at least that is what I read when compared to the 6mm Remington. Ballistaccly they're a wash, maybe a slight velocity edge to the 6mm Remington, although in the varmint world I doubt I would shoot out the barrel any time soon. Also, since my barrel is an 8-twist I'm wondering if it is a tad fast for the 70-75 grain varmint pills. Kreiger tells me the 87VMAX should be ok, but the 75 (and lighter) bulletes may come apart if they are pushed. Naturally, I don't plan on shooting 107SMK's at rock chucks or prarie dogs, but for sure it would reach out there.

That's a nice looking rig you have there and meantime I'm going to procure a good stock for the rifle. Currently looking at a HS Precision, Bell & Carlson or a Hogue Over mold. Which ever one I choose it would have the full aluminum piller bed which still needs a gunsmiths touch, IMO. Never been a fan of flutes and muzzle breaks but in this case I may make an exception as long as the
barrel warranty isn't voided by doing so (Shilen comes to mind but I could be mistaken).

On a different note, I've been enjoying all the Cooper porn lately. When the weather gets nice I'll be emptying my safe for spring wipe downs. When I do, I'll try and remember to snap a few shots of my SECNAV Remington 720 Trophy Rifle and post them here. It looks just as good as those Coopers, IMO. Just wish manyfactures would still make them like that.

Jim

[Rick in Oregon]

Well Jim, when that 6mm comes into being, we want pics and details; sounds like a neat project. As you can see, I used a brake on my 243AI so I could see the hits. I hate brakes, this is the only rifle of mine that wears one, but it does the job it's intended to do and I can see everything downrange.

I'd like to see your SECNAV rifle too. You don't see many of those about.

Glad you've been enjoying all the Cooper porn here. I too wish more manufacturers would build rifles the way Cooper does; it's not that much harder to do it right, and Cooper really does it right. Now we need decent weather to get out and actually USE them!

[Jim White]

I'll keep digging to see if the 70-75 pills will work in an 8-twist. I could always use 87's but that seems a tad much for small varmints, but maybe I'm wrong.

Jim

[ryutzy]

In one of my guns I've been shooting the 75 vmax out of a 9 twist. It works well, but I think I'll be moving to heavier bullets for that gun. For varminting purposes the reason most of us go to 6MM bullets is for high speed long range maximum red mist effect, and shooting light bullets out of fast twists is less than ideal. You will lose speed shooting a 75 or 87 out of an 8 tw barrel due to friction in the barrel. Some people claim that a twist that is way too fast can rob accuracy at "long" ranges even though your 200 yard group is tight. I have not tested this.

If you are going to shoot the 8 twist you could shoot the 105 grain Amax for the long range stuff. I do believe this is a fairly lightly constructed bullet but I personally have not used it.

For my 6MM AI gun I'm trying to have built, I'll be choosing the 12 twist Krieger barrel. With the 12 tw in a 6MM AI I can shoot up to 87 grain bullets if I shoot them fast enough. I plan on shooting 75s mostly and as others have I hope to hit 3800 fps with this setup.

[Ray P]

Guys all I'll add here is when I built my 6mm Remington w/ a 30" 1 in 8 Hart barrel, set up for long range. Originally 115 Bergers, didn't like the bergers. Loves 107 Sierras. My point is there are smaller calibers ( 204 Ruger) that will perform out 500 yards. When you like to venture on the other side of 500 yards the heaver bullets usually buck the wind better.
Good luck in your projects.
Later
Ray P

[Rick in Oregon]

For all the Long Range talk, I'll freely admit that 95% of my varmint shooting takes place inside of 500 yards. And for that reason alone, I have more .17, .20 and .22 caliber rifles, and only a couple 6mm varmint rifles. My point is that for me at least, is that as almost all my shooting can be easily done with light recoiling, highly efficient calibers such as the 204 Ruger and others in the same catagory, as my primary varmints are prairie dogs, ground squirrels, and rock chucks. I use a .243Win for coyotes.

Nothing wrong with nailing a PD or chuck past 600 or even 1,000 yards, but for all the powder burned, all the expensive bullets sent downrange, and the associated recoil with all the attempts taken in order to do so, I'd much rather spend my days in the field shooting lighter recoiling, smaller bore rifles, and smackin' rats on almost every pull of the trigger, even if they're mostly inside of 500 yards.

I'll still take out my 243 Ackley occasionally, but these days, I'd much rather have fun all day with my 20 Vartarg or one of my 204's instead of one of the bigger boomers. I find I shoot my larger bore rifles less and less these days (gettin' a might spendy to do so now too). As time goes by, smaller just seems to be getting better.....anyone else, or is it just me?

[Jim White]

With the 204 shooting @ ground squirrels, I'll take shots generally between 300 & 500 yards. Depending on conditions, I'll try shots beyond that. I don't always connect but it does test and hone my marksmanship skills.

The 6mm won't get used near as much as the 17's and 204's but for other applications, it will be the go-to piece. My only concern with the heavy 6mm bullets is the effects on the critters. The 105 AMAX is probably OK, the 107 SMK I'm guessing not (but I really don't know). However, a 107 SMK around 3100 fps (which is very easily obtained in a 6mm Remington) sure works wonders @ 1000 yards. If it stays within 10" consistently, at that distance I would be willing to sacrifice some velocity because I'll have the confidence it will connect in closer.

FWIW, 105 AMAX bullets work pretty well out of a REM 9 twist barrel however; they have to be single loaded due to their OAL.

Jim