cooper rifles?

[Rick in Oregon]

Rick,I saw my aunt last August and visited Portland as well. I spent an unforgetable summer with them almost 30 years ago when they used to lived in Beaverton. I am really excited about the Phoenix 20 VarTarg and in fact I already purchased 2k cases of 221 Fireball from Midway & the 8 oz JARD trigger is already in my safe waiting. I am hooked! Wotam

Wotam: Sounds like you had quite a visit here 30 years ago. I've been here almost 38 yrs myself.....never plan on leaving.

About those 2,000 221FB cases.....best to get started right now with a set of Redding body, neck, and comp seater dies. Forming even 1,000 20VT cases, possible neck turning, then annealing will take some time. Don't wait for your rifle to arrive before getting started, or you'll really find yourself behind the 8-ball.

Tip: When you start to form your 20VT cases from 221FB, use Imperial Sizing Wax for the chore, and forget the messy sprays and the other gunk passed off as die lube....most of it is pure junk. Imperial Sizing Wax just wipes on just using your fingers, wipes right off with a paper towel or rag, easily. A little bit goes a long way. Sinclairs has it along with their excellent Imperial Dry Neck Lube....both top choices for precison handloaders and will save you buckets of time in the long run....no mess either.

I formed, fully prepped, neck turned and annealed 450 20VT cases, and it took me a couple of weeks! 'Course, I'm slow, and you could probably do it quicker, but I mention it now so you don't wait for your rifle to get here prior to getting started and really be hurting for suitable ammo for the new Phoenix...... which you're gonna love! .

Don't forget pics.....we like pics!

[Wotam]

Rick,

Thank you for the tips, I already ordered the Redding Type S Bushing 3 Die Neck Sizer set from Midway which I will get by the end of the month. My initial research about case preparation & reloading the 20 VarTarg did not encounter the Neck Turning & Annealing process that you mentioned. Would you please explain these processes & its benefits? What tools will I need? Is it a necessary process? Again, thank you for your input in this matter.

Wotam

[Rick in Oregon]

Wotam: Sounds like you've done your homework on the 20VT. I'm no expert either, just been doing this stuff a long time.

Neck turning is usually a good idea, but not neccessarly critical after forming any case from another caliber, even if you only clean up 30%-50% of the neck to clean up and remove high spots after the expander ball has been drawn through the case mouth, it then becomes a good idea to remove any thickness irregulariaties by turning the outside of the case neck. This makes your neck thickness uniform, thereby your bullet neck tension uniform, and that usually results in accuracy gains.

As for annealing, lots of opinions here, but I've always been of the mind that after forming any case from a parent case, by annealing, the life of the case will be increased - no neck splits. I load for a number of wildcat cartridges, always anneal after forming, and have never lost a single case to neck or body splits, and some of my cases have been fired every varmint season, some dating to 1976 (true...222 Rem Mag formed to 223 Rem in 1976 still going strong). I use Todd Kindler's Series II Annealing Tip for a number of years with excellent results.

http://www.woodchuckden.com/

(Todd Kindler of The Woodchuck Den is the father of the .20 Vartarg, and one of the ones who prodded Ruger/Hornady to come out with the 204 Ruger back in the early 90's)

The annealing process is too much to explain here, but do some searching on saubier.com and 6mmbr.com on the subject and you'll get a very good understanding of the process. Or if you call Todd, he'll tell you everything there is to know about the 20VT and how to make cases. If you start out with new, dedicated cases for that 20VT and anneal after forming, they'll last a very, very long time.

[Wrangler John]

My experience with Cooper is that they are excellent rifles, with fine craftsmanship. Very accurate too. Only problem I have found is the stock combs are too low in any varmint configuration, they are just uncomfortable to shoot, especially the Phoenix. To use mine I had to wrap a tactical rifle accessory comb around the stock. The forends are also too round, if shot off a front rest they tend to roll like a ball bearing on a kiddie slide. Using a front bipod negates this quality. I just came back from a trip to Oregon for a bit of sage rat disassembly, and learned that my friend had put three of his new Coopers on consignment at the Shooter's Pro Shop in Bend, Oregon, for the same reason. While he said Cooper is offering some outside vendor stocks with a higher comb, he wasn't going to bother with them. The only other drawback is the triggers are not up to my standards without fussing with or replacing them. Are these "flaws" a big deal? Not to any normal human being, but to me they are a deal breaker, given I make up my own Savage Target Action rifles to my rather fussy specifications for about the same cost. I would not purchase another Cooper for those reasons. They are a fine semi-custom rifle with a great action and really nice wood, so take my comments for what they are worth in making your decision. I kept mine - it's in the safe somewhere.

[Big_Bullseye]

Well that is great choice looking into the Coopers but there is one issue with them. They are such a fine rifle with excellent fit and finish and above average accuracy but the problem is they are expensive and you will not be satisfied with your first one................... because you will already want another and then when that one comes you still won't be satisfied, because your focus will shift to your third. It never ends. I am currently waiting on my scope to get here Thursday for my third one.

I have a model 38 Jackson Varmint in .17 fireball...





A model 52 Excalibur in 280 Ackley improved





and as of last Friday I traded my Ruger #1V in 204 (I have another 204, don't fear) for a model 57-M classic in 17HMR. I have a Zeiss Conquest 3X9X40 on the way.....

[terrace]

well after waiting for my 204 phoenix to be shipped from Colorado to Wyoming and then on to California (the seller would not send to ca.)
I finally got to see it today I was surprised on how well it fit and the balance is great . I was also surprised how small the bolt is.
gonna put Talley one piece ring/base and a vortex viper 6.5x20x50 mil-dot scope on it I can hardly wait to shoot it
but now I have to get through a mandatory California 10 day waiting period

[Big_Bullseye]

well after waiting for my 204 phoenix to be shipped from Colorado to Wyoming and then on to California (the seller would not send to ca.)
I finally got to see it today I was surprised on how well it fit and the balance is great . I was also surprised how small the bolt is.
gonna put Talley one piece ring/base and a vortex viper 6.5x20x50 mil-dot scope on it I can hardly wait to shoot it
but now I have to get through a mandatory California 10 day waiting period

Do you already own a Vortex Viper scope on something else?

[RAMOS]

Big B,
I have a Phoenix .204, Talley one piece rings and Viper 6.5-20X44. If you are wondering, I love the performance of the entire package. I'm not tempted to change any of it at all. This is my full time "truck rig", so it gets hot, cold, dusty and bounced around. Each shot is fired with complete confidence of a clean hit.
Jon

[Big_Bullseye]

Big B,
I have a Phoenix .204, Talley one piece rings and Viper 6.5-20X44. If you are wondering, I love the performance of the entire package. I'm not tempted to change any of it at all. This is my full time "truck rig", so it gets hot, cold, dusty and bounced around. Each shot is fired with complete confidence of a clean hit.
Jon

I was just asking the other guy if he had tried the Viper because I have and I was not impressed at all. I had major problems with the eye relief. And don't think that I have a Swarovski, Zeiss or Leupold on every gun I own because I have several other lower end scopes that perform waaaaay better than the Viper Vortex or whatever....

I am glad to hear it works for you..

[RAMOS]

Big B,
The eye eye relief is a bit touchy. However, I was able to settle in to it easy enough and now I don't even notice it. For me, at least, it is a very comfortable package.
Jon

On edit: You are right, we SHOULD trust....but we MUST verify (for ourselves as individuals).

[Big_Bullseye]

Big B,
The eye eye relief is a bit touchy. However, I was able to settle in to it easy enough and now I don't even notice it. For me, at least, it is a very comfortable package.
Jon

On edit: You are right, we SHOULD trust....but we MUST verify (for ourselves as individuals).

Cool man..... and yep, probably applies even more with those Russians these days. Since they are not poor anymore (quite the contrary, think I read they have a 500 billion dollar surplus), they are like Rodney Dangerfield in that they want RESPECT! They are a silent threat to the US in my opinion but what do I know. Allie my arse.

[terrace]

sure do
got one on a m77 mark II 204 been happy with it so far

[cummins4x4]

My M22 25-06AI Coopers rock!!

[Big_Bullseye]

got the scope on mine today....

Really good glass on this one, almost look better than my last conquest.

[ryutzy]

awesome pics and guns guys. lets see some targets that you shoot.