Mounting scopes to detect barrel misalignment

[Lenard]

Something I have noticed over the past 50 years, that when mounting a scope and having to do lots of windage adjustments, There could easily be a problem with the chamber/barrel not parallel with the receiver. Receivers are drilled in line much better today so the receiver may not be the problem. I always center the windage on a scope when mounting it on a rifle. I have noticed with the Sako's and good jobs on custom barreling, that it takes very little windage adjustments to get on target. I recently sent out a mini mauser and a sako to Bob Green in Pa. for new PacNor barrels. Frankly, I have given up on run of the mill gunsmiths to do any barrel work and select only when others highly recommend them. Both of those scopes when mounted on the two rifles only needed a couple inches of windage adjustment to get them to the POA. I also traded scopes on another Sako action with the same results. This is not necessarly the rule in mounting, but it can bring to light, barrel/chamber alignment

I do recall in the early 60's and into the 70's, when receivers were drilled out of line, this caused shimming the bases to bring them into alignment. Especially with the early Leupold scope as they had minimum adjustments. Remington 700 actions seemed to be especially misdrilled in that era as I shimmed many an action when mounting the scopes.

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[Joe O]

I agree Lenord,however,the receiver problem,and/or barrel alignment has not gone away.The high end Savages seem to have alignment problems,because the scope base holes are drilled prior to heat treating,and could/ has, warped the action,to cause significant scope adjustment.MY LRPV shot very lows +/-10 shims front and rear,plus a shim under the rear base,I was able to get it to POA without adjusting the internal scope adjustment more than an inch.I have a Sako Forester 243 Win (50 years),that I can take the scope off and return a week later,put up the same target,and all shots will go into the same group.Not many combinations will do that.

[ryutzy]

So this must be the problem with my friends savage. He just bought a Savage .243 win. I forget the exact model but it's their high end target model. (model 12?) Anyway, he bought a VXIII 4.5X50 and we maxed out the elevation adj all the way down just to get near the bullseye. We will have to shim or something to correct this issue. Any better alternatives? The scope is mounted about 3/16ths above the barrel.

[Lenard]

Your friend will have to shim the rear base. If he has a collomator, he can trial and error the thickness of the shim until the elevation looks about right. I had to do that very thing on quite a few guns with Leupold scopes in particular. They Vari X 1 scopes did not have much adjustments in the variables. He will need to go back and center the adjustments on the scope.

[Neil S.]

My savage's reciever is also not threaded very true. I have installed two different mounts, rings and scopes on it, and all combinations result in having to adjust the scope almost all the way up. When I look down the barrel I would swear you can actually see the missalighnment with respect to the bolthead, but that could just be my imagination. The plus side is that I have almost my entire vertical adjustment at my disposal in case I want to dial it up . Of course I need to have an elevation turret installed first.... Many to-do's....

[Joe O]

My savage's reciever is also not threaded very true. I have installed two different mounts, rings and scopes on it, and all combinations result in having to adjust the scope almost all the way up. When I look down the barrel I would swear you can actually see the missalighnment with respect to the bolthead, but that could just be my imagination. The plus side is that I have almost my entire vertical adjustment at my disposal in case I want to dial it up . Of course I need to have an elevation turret installed first.... Many to-do's....

I would shim the rear scope base and shoot with a netural elevation turret setting.The alternative is send it back to Savage(they must be used to this by now), Or use Burris signature rings where you can use the +/- offset inserts supposedly getting you 20 MOA.They offer these rings in the standard turn in and the Z rings,which go on a weaver type base.The 30mm rings have the 10 supplied,the 1"signatures come with 5s,I believe.

[Wrangler John]

My Savage Precision Target Actions are about as straight as can be, never had any problems mounting a scope with Weaver bases and Burris Signature Z-Rings. The latest Dual Port action however seemed to have the front base holes clocked a degree or two off, not much but it made a difference. I scrapped the Weaver bases and installed a Farrell one piece base to gain some eye relief adjustment and the problem disappeared. Turns out one of the Weaver bases was distorted. Still didn't shoot to my expectation with a PacNor 1:9 twist polygonal barrel in .223 Remington. The Nikon Monarch scope was (is) producing a terrible picture, even after having been sent back for evaluation, so I put a new Bushnell Elite 4200 on and the rifle shot Nosler 40 grain Lead Free bullets under .5". There was more than one little thing wrong, and together they added up to a high frustration factor. I do all my own barrel installations, using PacNor, Shilen or Brux prechambered barrels, all of which are surprisingly well machined.

Do not assume the receiver is at fault alone, or is even the cause. There could several errors through all the components that compound to throw things way off. Burris also sells plastic base shims that come in handy for the occasional Mauser or Remington action. Where the receiver is off between front and rear bases, I use the Farrell one piece base and epoxy bed it per the instructions, that really does the trick.

[ryutzy]

Well we finally got my buddies gun to shoot within the scopes adjustment range, however the scope is still almost maxed out in elevation and windage. I'm still upset that Savage cant get their high end guns right. I dont believe that a $760 dollar gun should have these issues. I've been doing some searches on this and this seems to be a common problem with the Savages. I've owned quite a few guns and I have never had to do much scope adjusting. I guess I've never owned a Savage. I've got mostly Rugers, Remingtons, and Weatherbys. These guns all have a much better fit/finish then any Savage. I know that Savages typically shoot very well and are a great value for the dollar, but my buddys gun is not worth what was paid for it for the hassles that we endured. I probably wont buy one anytime soon. My next gun is a Cooper and no I don't have it yet, but I'm kinda leaning towards having Coopers replace a lot of my collection. I know they cost more than the Savage, but I'll bet I wont have these type of issues to waste my time. We missed out on two coyote hunts to deal with this thorn in the flesh. wheeww!!! now I've vented.

[Lenard]

My experience over the years, is that most all of these over the counter guns have some kind of problem. On SniperHide.com, those guys have found that 1 in 4 Remingtons are substandard and need a lot of work. So to have expectations that one can mount a scope and shoot small groups can be very frustrating. The only way I know to avoid problems with varmint rifles, is to buy high grade guns like the Coopers. Then there is always the chance one will need to send it back for repairs.

I bought a Remington 204 several years ago. It just would not shoot anything under 1 1/2". Here is what I had to do to get tiny groups.

Crowned the barrel
New trigger as I can't shoot hard pull triggers.
New firing pin and spring as I had slow fires ever 20-25 shots. The spring was catching inside the bolt.
New stock
Had to put pressure on the barrel or it simply would not shoot

Now, it shoots in the .2 and .3's consistently. An average guy who could not do the work themselves, would have enough money in the gun to buy a more quality one. The moral of the story, is that excpectations are too high and you just might get one of the lemons.