.308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
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.308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Hi everyone
I have been fortunate enough to be invited to join my cousin on a Red Stag hunt in the Highlands, nothern Scotland.
I am going to take my .308win Howa and it's favourite load of 155g A-Max over 44.0grains of VARGET. I get consistant groups (around 0.7"s or smaller) when i do my part and know that I will down my target, given the opportunity.
I know that the A-Max isn't a hunting round, but plopping a 155g in the Heart/lung area at between 100-200 yards should drop the deer!?!?
Do you think I should be OK, or would you suggest against using the A-Max as I have heard mixed reports - some say that's it a brilliant hunting round and will pierce anything, others say the jacket is too thin and hitting the bone/shoulder will fragment on the surface and won't penetrate.
If you have any advice, i would be most greatful!
Thanks in advance!
K
I have been fortunate enough to be invited to join my cousin on a Red Stag hunt in the Highlands, nothern Scotland.
I am going to take my .308win Howa and it's favourite load of 155g A-Max over 44.0grains of VARGET. I get consistant groups (around 0.7"s or smaller) when i do my part and know that I will down my target, given the opportunity.
I know that the A-Max isn't a hunting round, but plopping a 155g in the Heart/lung area at between 100-200 yards should drop the deer!?!?
Do you think I should be OK, or would you suggest against using the A-Max as I have heard mixed reports - some say that's it a brilliant hunting round and will pierce anything, others say the jacket is too thin and hitting the bone/shoulder will fragment on the surface and won't penetrate.
If you have any advice, i would be most greatful!
Thanks in advance!
K
Ruger 77/22 .22lr
Savage 12 VLP .223rem
Howa/Hogue 1500 Varmint HB .308win
Savage 12 VLP .223rem
Howa/Hogue 1500 Varmint HB .308win
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
There is a gentleman here that ONLY uses the 155 AMax on whitetail and big Muley here in Nebraska.
I questioned him about his bullet selection as well...his response....ALL of the energy is dissipated on the inside of the game.
I questioned him about his bullet selection as well...his response....ALL of the energy is dissipated on the inside of the game.
Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
I haven't used them on game myself, but know a fellow who uses somewhat heavier A-Max bullets from his .300 mag on a variety of game, including elk. He has great success, but did caution me that they're not deep penetrating bullets. Put 'em in the "boiler room" and according to him they're great.
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Acloco and Guy M
Thanks for your responses!
I know that the A-Max isn't the best round for hunting but it's all I have and know that I get great accuracy with them!
I shall take what you say on board and stick it in the heart/lung area. Even if the jacket does 'explode', all those little shards should slice through the vitals and cause maximum bleed-out - heart or lung soup anyone !
Thanks again for all your advice and comments!
Regards
K
Thanks for your responses!
I know that the A-Max isn't the best round for hunting but it's all I have and know that I get great accuracy with them!
I shall take what you say on board and stick it in the heart/lung area. Even if the jacket does 'explode', all those little shards should slice through the vitals and cause maximum bleed-out - heart or lung soup anyone !
Thanks again for all your advice and comments!
Regards
K
Ruger 77/22 .22lr
Savage 12 VLP .223rem
Howa/Hogue 1500 Varmint HB .308win
Savage 12 VLP .223rem
Howa/Hogue 1500 Varmint HB .308win
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
If you can, try and get a hold of some Barnes Triple Shock bullets. They're great, and shoot good but are a tad pricey.
Jim
Jim
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
I used to have a profound theory on bullets striking big game animals once upon a time! However, as I got more and more into ballistics, shooting more and more animals and testing various bullets, I soon found out that causing big shallow holes on larger animals, was not the ticket to get me on the train. I also got into the velocity bubble, wanting more and more bullet speed but that too sometimes became very disheartning as my bullets became nothing more than frag pieces of jagged metal.
Then I began reading things written by Elmer Keith, Jack O'Conner, Bill Jordan Skeeter Skelton and Fred Huntington. I had conversations with experts such as Joyce Hornday and John Nosler too, mostly about their bullets and do's and don'ts on big game animals etc. I soon got into reloading my own bullets for hunting. It opened up an all new world to me back in those days of yesteryear.
I learned the principles of the Nosler Partition bullet, it was the very best of both worlds for big game. Well, at least that is what I was lead to believe and those bullets worked for the most part but nothing is perfect in this world and I also found out the same it true with even the best of bullets. I did have some of those bullets fail too.
Velocity also was something I had to learn to deal with concerning my hunting bullets on big game animals. You upping that velocity, it is like hopping up Dads engine in the family 49 Ford, what ever you do to that engine for more horsepower, you best beef up the trainsmission and rearend as well, or soon you will have a break down.
Velocity gets upped over 2850fps and the good common deer bullets starts to go to pieces on bone and flesh of animals to be harvested. I soon learned that velocity can be very disheartning to a hunter using bullets, that were not meant to fly that fast. In other words, they won't stay together in particular situations, very large animals, with bigger bones being struck by the bullet for starters.
I soon learned that the big BOOM effect (Bullet fragging inside the animal) on a larger big game animal was not always the best route to follow. I lost my first bull elk with a .270 Winchester and 130 grain bullets years ago because it did just that BOOM and made a large whole (rose wound) never penetrating that all important front shoulder I was told to aim for an a bull elk. The bullet never reached the vitals of the bull!
So in closing I will only say, that as a hunter, I want my bullet to enter causing tissue damange but destroying those vitals and then exit leaving a blood trail for the hunter to follow, if things should come down to having to track the animal. I still like Nosler Partiton bullets for big game animals under 450 pounds in weight but I have come to adore those TBBC bullets, Swift A Frames and Woodleigh Solids, school is still out for me on the TSX Barnes bullets. Cheer's Mate! Good hunting to you!
Then I began reading things written by Elmer Keith, Jack O'Conner, Bill Jordan Skeeter Skelton and Fred Huntington. I had conversations with experts such as Joyce Hornday and John Nosler too, mostly about their bullets and do's and don'ts on big game animals etc. I soon got into reloading my own bullets for hunting. It opened up an all new world to me back in those days of yesteryear.
I learned the principles of the Nosler Partition bullet, it was the very best of both worlds for big game. Well, at least that is what I was lead to believe and those bullets worked for the most part but nothing is perfect in this world and I also found out the same it true with even the best of bullets. I did have some of those bullets fail too.
Velocity also was something I had to learn to deal with concerning my hunting bullets on big game animals. You upping that velocity, it is like hopping up Dads engine in the family 49 Ford, what ever you do to that engine for more horsepower, you best beef up the trainsmission and rearend as well, or soon you will have a break down.
Velocity gets upped over 2850fps and the good common deer bullets starts to go to pieces on bone and flesh of animals to be harvested. I soon learned that velocity can be very disheartning to a hunter using bullets, that were not meant to fly that fast. In other words, they won't stay together in particular situations, very large animals, with bigger bones being struck by the bullet for starters.
I soon learned that the big BOOM effect (Bullet fragging inside the animal) on a larger big game animal was not always the best route to follow. I lost my first bull elk with a .270 Winchester and 130 grain bullets years ago because it did just that BOOM and made a large whole (rose wound) never penetrating that all important front shoulder I was told to aim for an a bull elk. The bullet never reached the vitals of the bull!
So in closing I will only say, that as a hunter, I want my bullet to enter causing tissue damange but destroying those vitals and then exit leaving a blood trail for the hunter to follow, if things should come down to having to track the animal. I still like Nosler Partiton bullets for big game animals under 450 pounds in weight but I have come to adore those TBBC bullets, Swift A Frames and Woodleigh Solids, school is still out for me on the TSX Barnes bullets. Cheer's Mate! Good hunting to you!
Last edited by TONK on Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Second on the Barnes Triple Shock,, 150's for dear and 168's on elk. Very effective.
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Hornady makes fabulous bullets. I use 7 mm 139 gr. boat tail soft points and they are outstanding on elk and deer. I have never had any need a follow up shot. I cant say the same for the famous partition bullet.
My only experiance with a target bullet on big game came in the 1980's my gun loved seirra target bullets. I sat and watched a 30" buck close the distance to me to about 70 yards. I shot it thru the lungs and off it went. Not to worry, there was an inch of new snow on the ground and I'm a good tracker in new snow!! I sliped over to where it stood when I shot and there on the new snow was a .30 caliber length of lung. It looked like a pencil except made of lung. I sat down to wait a while befor tracking when the snow turned to rain.
I got lucky and found it dead before all the snow melted but I was pretty worried for a while. It had gone about 300 yards downhill but it had tucked itself into some really bad brush. Without the remenant snow I probably would never have looked there. The bullet had not expanded at all but it went right where I pointed it.
I would sacrifice a little accuracy for the proven knock down power of a big game bullet. Thats just my 2 cents. Let us know how you do whatever you settle on.
Best of luck
My only experiance with a target bullet on big game came in the 1980's my gun loved seirra target bullets. I sat and watched a 30" buck close the distance to me to about 70 yards. I shot it thru the lungs and off it went. Not to worry, there was an inch of new snow on the ground and I'm a good tracker in new snow!! I sliped over to where it stood when I shot and there on the new snow was a .30 caliber length of lung. It looked like a pencil except made of lung. I sat down to wait a while befor tracking when the snow turned to rain.
I got lucky and found it dead before all the snow melted but I was pretty worried for a while. It had gone about 300 yards downhill but it had tucked itself into some really bad brush. Without the remenant snow I probably would never have looked there. The bullet had not expanded at all but it went right where I pointed it.
I would sacrifice a little accuracy for the proven knock down power of a big game bullet. Thats just my 2 cents. Let us know how you do whatever you settle on.
Best of luck
Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Pretty much the same reason I don't use Sierra 168 gr Matchkings from my .308 on game, despite them shooting so well. Expansion was iffy... Sierra discourages people from using them on game and instead markets the Gameking series of bullets for hunters. Some folks though, have had good results on game with the Sierra Matchkings.
The Hornady A-Max and the Berger VLD both expand very nicely on game, and both are promoted by their manufacturers as hunting bullets. I know the Berger VLD has worked very well for me on three mule deer in the past two years. Extremely effective hunting bullet, as well as very accurate as a match bullet. I wouldn't use one on Big Game, but for deer sized critters, they work great.
Since the OP asked this back in September, it's likely a dead issue for him, but I find the topic interesting nonetheless.
Regards, Guy
The Hornady A-Max and the Berger VLD both expand very nicely on game, and both are promoted by their manufacturers as hunting bullets. I know the Berger VLD has worked very well for me on three mule deer in the past two years. Extremely effective hunting bullet, as well as very accurate as a match bullet. I wouldn't use one on Big Game, but for deer sized critters, they work great.
Since the OP asked this back in September, it's likely a dead issue for him, but I find the topic interesting nonetheless.
Regards, Guy
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
The a-max should work fine if you don't hit the shoulder blade or shoot into the heart/lung area with anything other than a good broadside shot or front on shot. I have killed several pigs and a deer whith tiny 32gr and 40gr v-max bullets at the dismay of the members of this sight, a 150gr bullet should work to. There are better bullets available, but if the a-max is what you are comfortable with, a good shot with a marginal bullet is better than a bad shot with a great bullet. If you are very comfortable with your shooting abilities you may consider a neck shot if you question your bullets penetration. The a-max will not fragment reliably under 2000fps according to Hornady. You may not get a decent blood trail if your bullet does not penetrate all the way through the animal. Just some things to consider.
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Hi Everyone
A big thanks to everyone who added their comments regarding my initial question / post.
Granted, the decision to use the 155g A-Max for deer isn't perhaps the best, but it certainly proved fruitful and I got my 'Staggie'.
Considering that the A-Max isn't marketed as a huntin' bullet, but i thought it performed a great job!
The Stag I dropped was a little under 200 yards on the slope below me, facing away from me and not quite broadside.
I decided to go for a heart/lung shot given the distance and decided to aim a few inches from the top of it's spine and towards the last rib (accounting for the angle it presented).
The A-Max hit the last rib (you could hear the crack of entry and see a fine mist of blood just blow over the top of it's back) and exited just forward of the fore-leg on the opposite side (shot went diagonally through and through).
Inspecting the carcass, there was a lot of bleed due to the heart being penetrated and small amount of stomach contents as the bullet grazed the stomach on it's diagonal trajectory through the deer.
Interestingly, the jacket literally exploded on impact, peppering the inside of the ribcage with small shards. The entry hole looked quite large (at first I thought it was the exit) but that must have occurred with the breaking of the rib / jacket explosion. The core continued through the chest cavity to leave a neat little hole on the opposite side of the ribcage about the size of a grape.
The deer (male stag who was in the middle of rutting season) ran for about 150 / 200 yards before keeling over in a heap stone dead.
I was impressed with the A-Max, especially given the distance, and will continue to hunt with it.
I would certainly advocate using dedicated game bullets for hunting, however in the UK they come with a much higher price tag plus you need to apply for expanding ammunition on your certificate.
Personally I will continue to use the A-Max for smaller sized game like deer as I know that it does the job. I achieve good accuracy with it in my Howa 1500 Varmint HB and i believe that shot placement has a lot to do with it, so accuracy is key for me.
Thanks again to all who commented
Regards
Kon
A big thanks to everyone who added their comments regarding my initial question / post.
Granted, the decision to use the 155g A-Max for deer isn't perhaps the best, but it certainly proved fruitful and I got my 'Staggie'.
Considering that the A-Max isn't marketed as a huntin' bullet, but i thought it performed a great job!
The Stag I dropped was a little under 200 yards on the slope below me, facing away from me and not quite broadside.
I decided to go for a heart/lung shot given the distance and decided to aim a few inches from the top of it's spine and towards the last rib (accounting for the angle it presented).
The A-Max hit the last rib (you could hear the crack of entry and see a fine mist of blood just blow over the top of it's back) and exited just forward of the fore-leg on the opposite side (shot went diagonally through and through).
Inspecting the carcass, there was a lot of bleed due to the heart being penetrated and small amount of stomach contents as the bullet grazed the stomach on it's diagonal trajectory through the deer.
Interestingly, the jacket literally exploded on impact, peppering the inside of the ribcage with small shards. The entry hole looked quite large (at first I thought it was the exit) but that must have occurred with the breaking of the rib / jacket explosion. The core continued through the chest cavity to leave a neat little hole on the opposite side of the ribcage about the size of a grape.
The deer (male stag who was in the middle of rutting season) ran for about 150 / 200 yards before keeling over in a heap stone dead.
I was impressed with the A-Max, especially given the distance, and will continue to hunt with it.
I would certainly advocate using dedicated game bullets for hunting, however in the UK they come with a much higher price tag plus you need to apply for expanding ammunition on your certificate.
Personally I will continue to use the A-Max for smaller sized game like deer as I know that it does the job. I achieve good accuracy with it in my Howa 1500 Varmint HB and i believe that shot placement has a lot to do with it, so accuracy is key for me.
Thanks again to all who commented
Regards
Kon
Ruger 77/22 .22lr
Savage 12 VLP .223rem
Howa/Hogue 1500 Varmint HB .308win
Savage 12 VLP .223rem
Howa/Hogue 1500 Varmint HB .308win
Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Glad that worked out for you! Interesting that the stag ran so far after the heart was hit. That's a strong animal!
Regards, Guy
Regards, Guy
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
Good report, thanks
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Re: .308win 155 g A-Max for hunting Deer?
I once shot a black wildebeast at 275 yards with a .270 winchester and 130 grain cheap bullet, the animal was hit just behind the shoulder with it's heart & lungs turned to mush I learned later. Now that bull circled from the herd and ran over 200 yards before coming to a halt and swaying its head back and forth. I put another round into him and he collapsed dead. Once we cut the animal open to see the damage and find the bullet, evidence showed us his heart was destroyed and lungs too. I am very glad these animals are not the size of an elephant, it would have taken a 40mm shell to bring it to a halt.
Thank a VET for your Freedom!