Pdog/Varmint Scope

[Jake]

Wondering what scope you would get for your 204 used mainly for pdogs if your budget was $2000 and also if only $1000. You can include ret choice if you wish. Or if your spent less and are happy with your results please share what your useing.

[Ray P]

Your 204 used mainly for pdogs ! You can't go wrong with a 6.5/20/ 50mm long range Leupold.......Clarity and amount of adjustment are a great plus for your $$$.
Again just my .02
Later
Ray P

[Rick in Oregon]

+1 for what Ray said. All my rat rifles wear Leupold VX3 6.5-20X LR scopes with their Varmint Hunter Reticle, and I'd not change a thing. The other option you may want to consider is a Nightforce. Both brands are used by our military, both are very robust, crystal clear optics, a wide range of reticle choices, repeatable settings/tracking, custom shop options for turrets, finish, reticles, and an excellent variable power range for most any use. I'm not discussing the spendy/overpriced Euro scopes, as I much prefer American made optics for my uses (note the Leica rangefinger below.... ).

I've shot grass rats for many years from Montana, SD, WY, BC to Oregon, and this scope, along with their 8.5-25X would be my first pick. I'm fond of the 40mm objective, as I don't hunt in dim light for grass rats so don't need a hulking 50mm, and you can mount them lower to the bore for a much more precise cheek weld to the rifle for all day shooting without straining your neck.

This is a Lupy 6.5-20X LR with the M1 elevation turret on my Sako M75 Varmint in 204:



In all the years I've been scoping rifles, I've had about every major brand at one time or another. They've all gone down the road except for my Leupold's. They also have the best warranty in the business.....period. Just another opinion.....others can and will vary.

[futuretrades]

I will have to agree with Rick. I now have Leupolds on all my rifles, cept one. That is a 10/22 that I don't shoot much. My main 10/22 wears a leupold though. I have been shooting sage rats for over 20 yrs. Been thru some different scopes thru the years. I finally settled on lupys, because I will spend a lot of hours looking thru my scope looking for sage rats. and I do use my binos a lot also, but my main glass is on the rifle for quick shots. with the lupy 6-18X40 and lrv reticle, usually using 10 to 12 power, scoping rats is no problem, and the eye strain is not really a problem.

Never looked thru the nightforce, but if RIO recommends them, I would buy one just because of his recommends them. and if they are good enough for our troops, that says a lot too!

[acloco]

It is tough to outfit multiple rifles on a budget.....AND get reasonable glass.

More and more Leupold's find their way on my rifles. Some of my favorites for fixed 12 or 16 power Leupold scopes (turrets and fine, duplex, or dot crosshairs). I do have a 8-25x50....and like it the most.....but, it is more money than the 12 or 16x Leupy's.

[Jim White]

Well, not to upset the apple cart here but there are some others;

1. Swarovski 6-18 or 5-25 scopes. They're slightly more than the Leupold's and clearer too. One nice thing about Swarovski's hold over reticles is their website allows you to plug in your data (BC, zero, elevation and so on...) select the kill zone (or none if you prefer) and it will display the actual hold over setting for each power of the scopes zoom range.

2. Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50. For varmints I'd go with the varmint reticle. There website allows you to plug in your data and it will tell you what power to use for the subtends to match up with the yardage marks. Its OK but near as versatile as the Swarovski site.

The drawback to these two is they're 1" scopes so if you want to crank the knobs, go with the Leupold unless you have a flat shooter, otherwise for hold over they're pretty good.

3. Leupold VX-3 (Long Range line). What can I say, they come with everything but scope base and rings and they are very good and for what you get are pretty reasonable. They too have a Varmint reticle plus they have the best reticle selection going.

Some others that get good reviews here & there but I've never looked thru them:

- IOR Valdada
- Meopta
- Trijicon
- Vortex

Last but not least, these days it seems that most makers are going from adjustable objective to side focus parallax adjustments. Like most things, there are (+ and -). Here is an article to shed some light on the subject:

http://www.6mmbr.com/parallax.html

HTH,

[Jake]

Thanks guys, I have only looked through high dollar scopes once, and on the day I did, the vx3 i looked through was what I liked the least. Perhaps I need to give it another try. I have never looked through a nightforce but plan to soon. Jim I have seen many of the scopes you mentioned and liked things about them all. Can you please explain why the 1" is a reason to not pick if you like to turn knobs?

[Critter]

I really like what this guy (Chuck Hawks) has to say in one of his articles:

These flat shooting, centerfire varmint and small predator (CXP1 game) cartridges can often get by with the scopes recommended in the category above, but sometimes they can use more magnification. Typical maximum ranges run 225-300 yards. Common examples of such varmint cartridges include the .17 Rem, .204 Ruger, .222 Rem, .223 Rem, .22-250, .220 Swift, .243 Win., 6mm Rem. and similar cartridges. An adjustable objective (AO) or side focus scope adjustable for parallax is recommended.

Fixed power scopes - Minimum magnification 6x; maximum magnification 12x; 10x scope recommended.

Variable power scopes - Minimum magnification 4x to 8x; maximum magnification 12x to 25x; 6-18x (approximate) scope recommended.

and as you might expect, with your availability of funds he gives you a vast variety of scopes to choose from:

Premium price class (MSRP over $1000)

Burris Diamond
Kahles Helia
Leupold VX-7
Schmidt & Bender
Swarovski PH, PF, PV
Zeiss Victory

High price class (MSRP $600-$999)

Burris Signature
I.O.R.-Valdada
Kahles American Hunter
Kaps Optics
Leupold VX-L, VX-III, FX-III
Nikko Diamond Sportsman
Nikon Monarch Gold
Pentax Lightseeker, Lightseeker 30
Redfield
Sightron Series III (SIII)
Swarovski AV Series
Trijicon Accupoint
Weaver T Series

[Jim White]

Thanks guys, I have only looked through high dollar scopes once, and on the day I did, the vx3 i looked through was what I liked the least. Perhaps I need to give it another try. I have never looked through a nightforce but plan to soon. Jim I have seen many of the scopes you mentioned and liked things about them all. Can you please explain why the 1" is a reason to not pick if you like to turn knobs?

The reason is; 1" scopes don't have the internal adjustments the 30mm tubes do. So, if your scope only has 30 MOA of internal adjustments and you use 10 MOA to get it "zeroed" @ 100 yards, you only have 20 MOA left. Now, if you're shooting long distances with a flat shooting cartridge this may, or may-not be an issue.

Some will say just add a 20 MOA base. Thats true, but the trade off may be it won't adjust down far enough to shoot up close. I had this same problem with a 1" scope on a 308 that I wanted to used from 100 to 1000 yards. It would do it, but it used all the internal adjustments I had (w/20 MOA base). For a 204, I doubt you would have a problem with a 1" scope, but...

HTH,

[FireBallGuy]

Going to be upgrading the old elite 4200 I have on my remy 204, going with an elite 6500 4.5-30X50 with the milldot reticle. IMHO is AS good as anything leupold makes, has more power and is less money....great scopes! Might consider a nikon as well. Have a buckmaster 6-18X40SF on my remy in 17 fireball and it is almost perfectly suited to the cartridge. The monarchs are an even bigger step up from the buckmaster line, check them out. I like LOTS of magnification,personelly.

[Jim White]

I've often wondered about the optic quality of the Elite 6500 4.5-30 scopes. That seems like a broad range for a single piece of glass (distortion, clarity and resolution).

I searched on line but I couldn't find a consensus between the Nikon and Bushnell although almost everyone said theirs was better than a Leupold although they wouldn't say which one.

On that subject all I can say is;

- My Leupold 8.5-25x50 VX3 is pretty sharp without washout or distortion on 25x.
- My Nikon Monarch (6.5-20x50 (SF)) is just as clear and sharp upto 18-19x. After that it starts showing washout and only gets worse as the power increases. Its not bad but it is noticible.
- Neither of my Zeiss Conquest or Swarvoski scopes exhibit this anomoly.

Jim

[OldTurtle]

While I don't have any of the really 'high dollar' optics, my Burris 8-32x Black Diamond would be tops, I've always found that about mid day, I have to crank the power down to 18x, or below, due to heat distortion (mirage), so my 4-16x usually gives me the best trouble free results..

I looked through a friend's NightForce at an Egg Shoot a couple of months ago (cool weather) and really couldn't tell much difference between it and my Burris.... We were all restricted to 15x for the shoot.... I did like the reticle in his for being user friendly though...

I guess that if I were in a position where I was making money due to my shooting, or my life depended on my optics, I would be much more attention on the glass and it's quality, but right now, spending $1,000 on a scope would be more of a bragging or status symbol... any amount higher than that would be wasteful for me...

[Critter]

OT:

You put a fine edge on the discussion.

I like the European model. We as Americans being a very rich country with relatively low taxes tend to have a large number of guns in our racks or safes. We have shot guns, lever guns, semi auto black guns, Bolt Action Hunting Rifles, Varmint Rifles, ...

Europeans tend to have 1 rifle if any. Calibers tend to be fairly benign metric mediums. But I notice rifles and by association optics tend to be very high quality. Their theory buy the best there is but in very small numbers. They just don't have as much as we do. (The exception to this is the very wealthy and the ruling classes who have what ever.)

Now the optics are generally German and very special. Schmidt und Bender, Swaro, or Zeiss. If you could only have one which would it be.

But when going for long range performance, resolution and precision of adjusting mechanisms are critical. When you buy "K-Mart" scopes, there isn't the money in manufacturing to provide quality stuff. American manufacturer's like Bushnel, Weaver, Swift, Redfield, and many others built serviceable, but minimum quality optics in my view, in an effort to stay under that $400 to $500 ceiling. I had to search long and hard to find stuff that really sparkled (not an engineering term).

Recently, Leupold has stepped up to the plate with scopes like VX-7 and a few of the mark 4 scopes that have better quality and other features like larger tubes, heavier construction, Front Focal Plane, larger reticle choices, etc., etc. This as my German friends say is very good.

Your main point is that the cut off is a tad over $1000 is dead on. The benefits are real. But like the guy that gets Bi-focals and can finally see after all these years, if you don't try the stuff you will never know.


Of course no one believes me, so I just put my $.02 in where I can, and usually get hammered for it.



I was just looking at this old picture of my rifle. The funny thing about it, if you really know your stuff you can see what it is. If you don't then it's just another rifle.

[Jim White]

OT;

Regarding the Swarovski's I own, I got them both at killer deals. In fact, each time I was looking for a Leupold VX-3 with the varmint reticle but, each time, I was able to get a Swarovski out the door cheaper than the Leupold. Seemed like a no-brainer to me so I snagged them. The program on their website for the reticle is very usefull.

Like most, I've heard all about Europen scope optical quality. And like "Critter"mentioned, until one actually sees the difference, they'll never know. When I got my VX-3 last year I thought; how much clearer/brighter can a scope be? Well, now I know.

Regarding the Burris scope line, I put a 4.5-14x42 FFII on his 17 HMR a couple of years back and we're very impressed with its optical quality.

Also, I'm still curious about the Bushnell 4.5-30 Elite 6500 scope clarity, resolution and distortion.

Jim

[lanenebraska]

If I had 2K for a scope......Hmmmm,......I'd spend $210.00 on a 4-16x50 Mueller German#4 reticle, and use the left-over $1800 to fund my Pdog shooting trips