204 Ruger at extended range

[FireBallGuy]

Have any of you out there put together a fast twist 204 for truley long range shooting? Using that 55 grain berger VLD varmint bullet I am thinking this could make the perfect varmint sniping tool for ranges most of us would normally pass on. To my way of thinking this combination could be good for 800+ yards maybe more. With a 26-28" barrel and some slightly slower burning powder, I am thinking varget or RL-15 together with that .381BC bullet could be a deadly combination for those yotes' that just refuse to come in. Any thoughts?

[Ray P]

Fireballguy........here is a link to a post that might help with your question.
http://www.204ruger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6706
Later
Ray P

[Hotshot]

FBG,

I've been studying this for a while. My decision is to go with a cartridge that has more powder capacity to create higher velocity and therefore have a flatter trajectory and better wind fighting abilities at those long ranges. Since the barrel would have to be custom anyway, why not a custom chamber as well. Somewhere between 20BR and 20-250 is the answer with a 1:8 twist for the 55 gr bullets. 1:9 might do the job, but why chance it? I'm really holding out for more bullet choices before building such a specialty rifle. Now if a factory 1:9 twist was available, I might be tempted to give that a try. I like your thinking, keep us posted.

[stevecrea]

I have noted that many .204 shooters have remarked that their rifles with the common 1 in 12 twists do not care for the 40 grains and up in a number of instances. This makes me wonder if, you prefer the 40s, that a bit faster twist such as 1 in 11 or 1 in 10 would be preferable. And, if so, are there any disadvantages to going with a bit faster twist?

[Hotshot]

Twisting the bullet more than needed for stability will rob some energy that could reduce velocity. More pressure could result. Extreme result could be to damage the jacket or tear it right off.

[kenbrofox]

Twisting the bullet more than needed for stability will rob some energy that could reduce velocity. More pressure could result. Extreme result could be to damage the jacket or tear it right off.

Hi Hotshot, thats a very interesting theory. Perhaps some others with the knowledge can expand on this. I've just finished re-barreling a 601 BRNO as an 11 twist 204, but haven't fired it yet. Regards, Ken.

[Ray P]

Guys............My gunsmith/friend built a 6mm of a short Lazzeroni case and coupled it a 30" 8 twist barrel. Sierra bullets are suppose to have one of the toughest jackets. We couldn't get 6 rounds down the barrel with out have a 107 gr Sierra MK coming apart befor our 100 yard target. The target looked like it was shot with a shotgun. Conclusion to much HP for the twist of the barrel, we were shreading the bullet jacket.
Later and lessons we learn.
Ray P

[stevecrea]

Ray P:

That is interesting!

What was the estimated velocity?

[Ray P]

Steve............Sorry I don't know. When I see him, I'll pick his brain to see if he remembers.
All I remember is it was a nightmare of a project. Good brass first, than bad brass, plus the horsepower problem. I'll try and find out.
All I'll say is you don't couple a fast twist barrel with a cartridge capable of hi velocity.............the two don't mix!!
Later.........Sorry to get off tangent from the original post.
Ray P

[FireBallGuy]

Interesting guys!! After doing a little reading and finding somewhere around 500 22-250 cases laying around, maybe that 20-250 has some merit. From what I read this sucker can drive 55's to some very STUPID velocities!! I suppose that with a 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 tube the lightest bullets that will work would be the 39-40 grainers? As an all long range varmint round this thing is begging for the 50 or 55 grain match varmint VLD's. Time for some more research on this puppy. Thanks for your thoughts again guys.

[giterdone]

I would like to point out that the Berger 55gr boat tail varmint .204 bullet has an "Average G7 std. B.C. @ 3,000fps" of 0.195. If that bullet is fired at 3,800fps muzzle velocity its retained energy would be 113 ft. lbs.@ 800yds and retained energy of 198 ft. pounds @ 600 yards, optimal game weight of 4 pounds @ 800 yards and 9 pounds @ 600 yards. Thats a small Yote.

Now if you use the G1 std B.C. (which is for flat base bullets) the B.C. starts at .381 and goes down from there. Using .381 B.C. "as an average" with a muzzle velocity of 3,800 fps as an example, its retained energy at 800 yards would be 429 ft. lbs. and the optimal game weight would be 30lbs. and @ 600 yards 634 ft. lbs retained energy and the optimal game weight is 54 pounds, BUT.... this is a false calculation because it is not an average of the velocities like the G7 B.C calculation that Berger uses. To use this bullet at those 600-800 yards for other than punching paper would IMHO be unethical.

[Hotshot]

A better prairie dog round than coyotes at those ranges. There are 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges that will deliver the energy for those ranges. Typically those cartridges aren't fun to shoot for extended sessions in a prairie dog town, but would be fine for the occasional long poke at bigger game. If only a guy could afford one of everything.

[FireBallGuy]

It has been my experience that as long as the bullet is moving fast enough at whatever range you are shooting at to expand, it will get the job done. I have shot yotes' at close range that took 2 shots and other at EXTREME range that went down with bullet #1, so the energy arguement does not really hold water in my book. As an example, I shot a HUGE red fox many years ago with a marlin 22 mag, meassured it off after the shot was 185 yards and mr. fox dropped like a bag of hammers, was a head shot by the way. I have made MANY clean 1 shot kills with both rimfire and center fire guns at ranges that were beyond the "normal range" for the given gun. It's not what you hit them with but where you hit them that counts.

[giterdone]

And people have killed Grizzly bears with a .22 rimfire, elephants with a 7x57mm, and polar bears with a .22 Hornet so what's your point? Its not what you hit them with but where you hit them that counts? If you are shooting at animals "Beyond the normal range for the given gun" as you say you are.... then it would be in the best interest of this forum that I dont post what im thinking.

[giterdone]

Fireballguy........here is a link to a post that might help with your question.
http://www.204ruger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6706
Later
Ray P

Okay....Lets think about this, suppose the 1-9 twist will stabilize a 55 Berger @ 3400fps even though Berger recommends a 1-8" twist. Lets say he is zeroed at 300 yards for example. He says the wind was 25mph. The Berger G7 ballistic coefficient of this bullet is .195 at an average of 3,000 fps, shooter is zeroed at 300 yards:
Example 624 yard shot...drop from 300 is 101" (8.4ft.) wind drift @ 25mph 207" (17.5 ft)
Example 775 yard shot...drop from 300 is 236" (19.5ft.) wind drift @ 25mph 348" (29ft.)
Example 855 yard shot...drop from 300 is 336.5" (28ft.) wind drift @ 25mph 429" (35 3/4ft) that he missed by 3 inches.

BTW.... we havent seen any more examples Mr. Brown's shooting skills.