17 Fireball and RL-10X

[FireBallGuy]

Has anyone got any data for this powder with 25 grain bullets? Someone was kind enough to show me some data for 20's but I have no interest in the at all. ANy help would be great. Thanks.

[Joker]

I tried 2 different loads today. 17g and 17.2g with federal 205 primers and 20g VMAX's. Didn't shoot very well. Maybe 2 inch goups. Check out the link below for the Mach IV. I reduced this load by about 10% not sure what max would be. I didn't go above 17.2g with 20g bullet. I am having trouble finding a good load for my Model 7 predator. Tried H322, H335, Benchmark, IMR 4198, and those loads of reloader 10 with 20 and 25g VMAX's. Can't get anything under 1 inch groups. Any suggestions? Let me know if you have any luck or good loads.

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1191

[FireBallGuy]

Sounds like a familiar story.......when I bought this SPS it would not shoot worth a darn!!!! Sighting the gun in was a task because it was fouling so badly!!! Finally....after a week of using sharp shootr cleaning stuff I got the barrel completely clean took it out again and what do you know......SHR GROUPS!!!! 5 shot groups with 20gr factory ammo under 1/2" 5 shot groups with UMC 25gr ammo 4 shots 1 hole other one just outside. It would appear that the bore on this gun is terribly rough, only put 20 shots through it last time out and what came out of the barrel looked like I put 100 through the gun!?! Bought an SPS varmint the year the round was released and that one ws a tack driver. With either benchmark or H4198 and 25 hp bullets well under 1/2" groups were the norm all day long until I got tired of watching. I could put 150 rounds through that gun at a time and not spend more than an hour cleaning it and this new one I spend more time cleaning than I do shooting. Hoping this problem will disappear as more rounds go down the tube but at least now I know the gun will shoot. Try using the published by hodgdon COL for your handloads at least with the Vmax bullets (either weight) and around 1.805" if you use the hornady 25 grainer. This is what I did and the results speak for themselves, I am not a big tinkerer, use published info and a little minor fine tuning to get what I need. He who plays around too much gets no results....learned that the hard way. Have test ammo ready with H4198, benchmark, H322, H335 and I am going to arrive at a safe use for RL-10X tomorrow. Let me know if things turn around for you with that model 7.

[Joker]

Thanks alot. I think i need to just start all over. I have kept the barrel very clean. I have used the book data for COAL. I only have WSR and Fed 205 primers. Maybe if i ever find some match primers that will help. I love this gun and you know how it feels when you can't get one to shoot how you know it can. Thanks again.

[FireBallGuy]

Not a problem....anything for a fan of the little furball!!! I use nothing but remington 71/2's or when you can find them federal 205M primers prefer the remys if your gun likes hot loads this is a MUCH better primer. Keep us posted how it works out for you. Avoid the temtation to seat your bullets way out as I learned the hard way this is not a good deal in the 17 bore.

[Sidewinderwa]

Check this out:


Cartridge: 17 Remington Fireball
Load Type: Rifle
Starting Loads
Maximum Loads

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
20 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H335 .172" 1.830" 18.5 3704 40,600 CUP 20.5 4027 50,000 CUP
20 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Benchmark .172" 1.830" 18.5 3758 40,300 CUP 20.0C 4013 49,100 CUP
20 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H322 .172" 1.830" 18.0 3652 37,500 CUP 19.5C 4019 49,200 CUP
20 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 4198 .172" 1.830" 15.3 3636 37,700 CUP 16.7 4017 50,600 CUP
20 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H4198 .172" 1.830" 16.0 3811 39,200 CUP 17.3 4037 47,800 CUP
25 GR. HDY HP Hodgdon H335 .172" 1.800" 17.7 3510 41,700 CUP 19.4 3744 50,400 CUP
25 GR. HDY HP Hodgdon Benchmark .172" 1.800" 17.5 3550 41,900 CUP 19.0 3745 48,500 CUP
25 GR. HDY HP Hodgdon H322 .172" 1.800" 17.0 3504 38,500 CUP 18.3 3704 48,900 CUP
25 GR. HDY HP IMR IMR 4198 .172" 1.800" 15.0 3463 40,500 CUP 16.2 3692 50,000 CUP
25 GR. HDY HP Hodgdon H4198 .172" 1.800" 15.4 3549 40,500 CUP 17.0 3789 49,900 CUP
30 GR. BER HP Hodgdon H335 .172" 1.800" 17.8 3366 39,500 CUP 18.8 3512 49,000 CUP
30 GR. BER HP Hodgdon Benchmark .172" 1.800" 17.0 3307 39,700 CUP 18.7C 3569 49,400 CUP
30 GR. BER HP Hodgdon H322 .172" 1.800" 16.5 3295 38,500 CUP 18.0 3533 49,300 CUP
30 GR. BER HP IMR IMR 4198 .172" 1.800" 14.8 3277 40,600 CUP 15.8 3456 49,000 CUP
30 GR. BER HP Hodgdon H4198 .172" 1.800" 14.9 3299 42,400 CUP 15.9 3481 50,400 CUP
NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS
Hodgdon web site IMR Smokeless Powders web site Winchester Smokeless Propellants web site
www.hodgdon.com www.imrpowder.com www.wwpowder.com

[Joker]

I think i need to go and clean some brass. Maybe i should just wait til i can get some other primers. You think that could be one of my biggest problems? I want to keep trying but feel i am getting nowere. Then again, i may not find primers for the next 6 months or so.

[FireBallGuy]

Dont really think primers are your biggest problem, how many rounds have gone down the barrel? Mine is still fairly new only about 60 shots and each time I use the gun it seems to be getting better. Where I work helps me get to the front of the line as far as reloading components go (Cabelas Canada) have many bricks of remy 71/2's and CCI BR-2's at home should last me for a while. one last suggestion: Take an old worn out 17 branze brush and wrap it with a patch saturated with jb compound and kroil work it back and forth 50-100 times clean the gun real well and try again. I have seen way too many new remys that have bores that are rough as you know what.....it's worth a shot and you can do no harm by trying.

[Joker]

Thanks. Maybe 150 rounds. it's pretty new. I am having a new problem today. It just keeps getting better. As i was testing rounds when i would chamber a round and attempt to close the bolt it was very hard to do. as i pulled the bullet back out it had a scratch going the lenght of the shell and a gash in the very base of the brass. I can't really tell but i looks like as the bolt closes the bullet is not moving. I came home and put some empty rounds in it that i had sized but never fired and had not problem. I think there is a problem with the way i sized this batch, but then again i have reloaded this same batch 2 times already with no previous problems. Talk about frustrated.

[FireBallGuy]

Scratches in the case are normal when the gun is new....must remeber....short round fairly steep shoulder angle this will go away as all the crap remington puts on the metal parts starts to wear away. As for the difficulty in chambering....same problem here. Factory loads is all I have shot so far and will continue to do so for a while, some are hard as heck to chamber and the next one is fine could be irregularities in the brass, maybe a chamber issue. What I found helped a bit was when you clean your brass make sure it is a clean and shiny as possible this appears to be helping out this problem. Have settled on this recipe for 25 grainers with RL-10X going to start at 16.5 grains and top out at 18.0 grains. From what I have learned so far the difference between 20's and 25's at max is about 1/3 of a grain so I will use this a reference and go from there going up in 2/10 of a grain increments.

[Joker]

I understand that but these are very deep. If you can picture where the brass sits in the bolt under the extractor. well the bolt is actually pealling the brass in a certain spot. If you would run you finger around it you would feel a sharp pointy piece the is sticking out. There is also a mark on the inside rim were i beleive the extractor is holding the case. I don't know what it is. The brass can not be used after this happens. When you close the bolt on a rifle does the bolt slide around the bottom of the bullet or is the bullet supposed to turn with the brass? I will try to post pics. Do i have to use Photo bucket?

[Joker]

Ok. Here are some pics. The brass is worse than the pics show.


IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh22 ... 0013-1.jpg[/IMG]

[Joker]

[FireBallGuy]

Wow!!! That is nasty!!! Mine is just lightly scratching up brass, I see yours are being GOUGED!!! I would contact remington about that this is not normal at all. Thought I would throw in a pic from my last trip to the range, I think this gun is finally coming to life.

[Joker]

I found out that the when i was using the rcbs fl sizer die that it was so hard to extract the case from the die that it was stretching the case at the shoulder. Bought redding dies and bumped the shoulder back and no problems now. Good shooting. what load is that if you don't mind?