Barnes 150 or 165gr TSX for elk

[Elmer Fudd]

The possibility of an elk hunt is in the future. I'm shooting a .308 Win and can't decide what bullet to pick. Should I go for the vel of the 150 or a little more weight (energy) of the 165. Also, I know it's a little overkill but how well will they work on whitetails? Or am I just better off with my sierra 125gr SPT @3000fps for the whitetails?

[acloco]

How long of shot is the possibility you are going to take?

(and I have to ask), have you practiced with this rifle/caliber at distances over 400 yards?

Personally, a 308 would not be my choice of caliber for elk. (no, don't need to start the caliber debate, but there are multiple calibers that are more suited for the task).

[Jim White]

The possibility of an elk hunt is in the future. I'm shooting a .308 Win and can't decide what bullet to pick. Should I go for the vel of the 150 or a little more weight (energy) of the 165. Also, I know it's a little overkill but how well will they work on whitetails? Or am I just better off with my sierra 125gr SPT @3000fps for the whitetails?

I just did a quick look at Hornady Light Magnum 308 ammunition. The 165gr retains more energy.

165 gr: 1540 ft/lbs @ 400 yards
150 gr (SST): 1595 ft/lbs @ 400 yards.

Thats enough energy to can an elk but you're on the ragged edge. From what I've heard, 1500 lbs is the minimum for a clean kill.

Be advised, the extra energy brings extra blast and recoil. Outside of this ammo, I'd be surprised if you can reload and obtain these results. FWIW, I've used 30.06 Light Mag (180 gr) in my Ruger 77. It chronographs within 20 fps of advertised velocity and its pretty darn accurate as well.

At the end of the day, a well placed shot is what counts.

Jim

[Elmer Fudd]

acloco, I know it's not the best caliber for elk but it's what I have. I will be practicing out to 300 yards at my brothers (Hawkeye Joe) gun club. I will just limit my shots to under 300 yards. According to the Barnes website I should be able to push the 150gr tsx to about 2850fps.

[bullfrog]

As long as you know you're range limits you'll be fine, but I would definately go with the 165 grain over the 150. However, I would probably choose a 180 grain over both. Trajectory will be similar enough to the 165 and it will give the best penetration which is what you want when elk is your game. TSX is definately a good choice if it shoots well, again penetration being the goal.

[Rick in Oregon]

Elmer: One of the key advantages to the Barnes TSX tipped bullets, is that you can shoot "light for caliber" bullets and still get complete penetration on large game animals. For that reason, I'd say go ahead and shoot the 150 Barnes tipped TSX, as you will get better velocity in the .308W case, and still be assured of very good penetration on a bull from most angles inside of 300 yards.

I'm on the Barnes Advisory Staff, and have been properly "schooled" on their use, and in light of this, I'd feel completely confident using the 150gr over any of the heavier weights in the .308W, but ONLY using their tipped TSX bullet, which greatly differs from conventional expanding game bullets from other manufacturers. The new tipped version of the TSX also has an excellent BC, but in the .308W case, I'd still try to keep shots inside of 300 yards because of the limited case capacity you have available, which of course limits "horsepower" and as such, terminal performance.

For whitetails, look at some of the lighter .308" diameter offerings from Barnes, as again, you can use "light for caliber" TSX bullets in that .308W, and get better trajectory/BC and velocity, and still be assured of complete penetration on a light skinned deer. I shoot 120gr TSX's in my 7mm-08 Ackley, and at 3,380 fps, it easily zips through our large mule deer, opening up a nice exit wound that really lets in alot of air and alot of blood out.....the deer shot with this bullet has never gone more than ten steps to date. The favored "conventional" bullet for this caliber on deer would normally be one of the 140gr offerings; hence the 120gr TSX being "light for caliber" in my 7mm-08 Ackley..

[Guy M]

Rick - I've only taken a couple of mule deer with the Barnes TSX, the little 100 grainer from my .25-06 Remington. The bullet absolutely hammered those bucks! Penetrated completely through and expanded, leaving a dead mulie buck behind, instantly.

With the serious penetration these things offer, I'd be real tempted to go with the 150 for elk from my .308 Win. A fellow can get 2850 fps from the 150's by using Varget and Hodgdon's reloading data. Nothing wrong with the 165 either, and with a conventional bullet I'd go heavier, but with the Barnes, lighter & faster are better.

[acloco]

acloco, I know it's not the best caliber for elk but it's what I have. I will be practicing out to 300 yards at my brothers (Hawkeye Joe) gun club. I will just limit my shots to under 300 yards. According to the Barnes website I should be able to push the 150gr tsx to about 2850fps.

I am surprised he does not have a 1:10 twist 204 using 50 gr bullets set up for an early season elk hunt!

Excellent....I understand.

Don't get me wrong, 308 is capable for your task. If you practice enough and have a GOOD range finder, I would not hesitate on a 500 yard shot with the 308.

Sounds like 150 TSX's might be your new friend as well.

[Elmer Fudd]

Thanks for all the info guys.
Rick in Oregon, Is there a big difference between the TSX and the tipped TSX? Is the bullet construction different or is the tipped TSX just a regular TSX with a plastic tip?

[bullfrog]

Rick and Guy-
So how would you guys choose bullet weights for different calibers using tsx bullets? For instance, in a 270, would you use 130 over 150 even though 150's are fairly flat shooting? Or 150 vs. 180 in 30-06? In other words, do you always choose light for caliber bullets when using tsx?
Never shot them, but I have planned on working up some loads. Some very serious trophy hunters I know swear by them (their the kind of guys that spend more on hunting in a year than I make).
Also, anyone start playing with the e-tip?

[Rick in Oregon]

Elmer: Yes, the Tipped TSX bullet is the same as the TSX, but with the plastic tip added to increase the BC a bit, and also initiate expansion a bit earlier. Other manufaturers added the tips for preventing damage in the magazine from recoil, initiate expansion, plus to gain BC. The little tips have really helped all game and varmint bullets since their inception by Nosler back in the early 90's.

[bullfrog]

There is an interesting video on www.federalpremium.com that shows them comparing 4 factory rounds shot from a 30-06 (go to resources, then click videos).
They compare the sierra game king, nosler ballistic tip, trophy bonded tip, and the barnes tsx all in 165 grain. They shoot one each into gel, then one into gel with a wt hide in front, then gel with moose hide and a cow femur bone imbedded in the gel.
Worst performance was the game king, and the tsx went all the way through the 24" gel every time. But what was even more interesting to me was the disruption, not just penetration, that the tsx gave. It seemed to have just as massive of a wound channel as the more frangible bullets.
Not a real technical video, and the results are pretty much like you would figure, but worth watching. Actually, the nosler bt surprised me with how well it held together and penetrated.
I'd like to do some penetration tests of my own with barnes vs. others. Just for fun

[Guy M]

Interesting. Thanks. Bullet tests fascinate me. Over the past year I've been slamming a few different rifle and handgun rounds into my test material of choice, one-gallon plastic milk jugs filled with water. With rifles I've mostly used the .45/70, but also shot the jugs with a .25-06 and the 100 gr Barnes TSX. It was pretty interesting. The little 100 gr TSX at 3340 fps mv penetrated nearly as far as the 405 gr Remington factory .45/70 load at very sedate velocity...









And both out-penetrated the 300 gr Remington HP loaded just a tad on the warm side:



The 100 gr Barnes TSX at 3340 fps is a serious mule deer killing bullet. The 405 Remington does a fine job too. Just different ways to get it done. That 300 gr Remington might do well too, loaded a little slower...

Regards, Guy

[bullfrog]

Cool pics Guy. I've tried milk jugs too and they are a lot of fun. Just takes a while to collect enough of them as one shot can ruin 5 or 6 of them.
Also, the first time I tried it I was only about 15 or 20 feet from the first one, and found out the hard way that when you are to close you will get very wet!
That 405 rem bullet looks about how the .50 cal muzzleloading bullets ended up that I shot into water filled jugs. Amazing how much resistance the water creates.

[Guy M]

Getting off-topic here, but yeah, I like the milk jug tests.