Stainless Steel Bore Brushes

[C Dan]

I got this from a bench rest guy who has several world records.
Use Bore Tech from Sinclairs with a nylon brush, follow the directions and it will clean the barrel better than anything else and has NO ammonia.
Dan

[jo191145]

Pardon my ignorance but what is kroil? it was all coppered up again. What does a guy do to help this problem along?

Kroil is one of the best penetrating oils known to man. Most shooters of moly, WS2 use it when they want to clean down to steel. Its known for penetrating under bullet lubes, carbon and even helping to loosen copper to aid in brushing them away. It is not a copper remover by any stretch of the imagination though.
I theorize it it removes some of the carbon trapped under the copper allowing your solvents to attack from multiple directions at once.

The best copper remover I've yet to use is Patch-Out. Made by the makers of Wipe-Out foam. I find it just as effective and more versatile as the foam but without the mess. I Highly recommend the accelerator that goes with it.

The best way I've found to break in a new tube or old pitted rusty milsurp barrel is this.

Buy a can or three of Lock Ease. "Graphite in a liquid carrier found in GOOD hardware/auto stores".

Make sure barrel is as CLEAN and dry as possible.
Point muzzle directly muzzle down. Insert little tube from Lock Ease can as deep into chamber as possible.
Liberally spray interior of bore until the Lock Ease runs out in quantity.
Keep muzzle down as long as possible. Overnight is best. One minute if your as impatient as me.

Now run a "loose" patch through the bore three times. The same filthy black patch you get on your first pass, no new ones.
This will ensure theres no puddling or globs of graphite in the barrel to cause an obstruction. Pretty darn important
Go out and shoot your preference of 10-100-1000 rounds. If you get any significant copper let me know. I'd like to here of the first occurence.
I've performed this procedure on one new Savage 204tube (known for collecting copper). One 243 custom tube that must have missed the handlapping procedure and resisted normal breakin for over two hundred rds. (coppered just as bad as any Savage tube I've seen)
And just recently a pitted, slightly rusty, copper clad 1903-A3 barrel. (overnight with Patch-Out was the thing that finally removed the old copper. Sweets would'nt touch it)

All three ran with no copper after using this method.
This will effect your loads. Probably for the better but be aware once you go without Lock Ease accuracy will change and load work up will change.
It is a great way to get some rds down the tube without copper covering the rough spots
As you may know, once copper covers over the rough spots your wearing the smooth spots and not smoothing the rough. Not a good thing.

If your a reloader switching to a sootier ball type powder will aid in stopping copper until your bore finally smooths out.
748
H-335
BL-C2 come to mind

R-10X seems to be the dirtiest powder I've used. It seemed so dirty accuracy could not be maintained for sustained firing without frequent cleaning. I did'nt try much.

edit swab any Lock Ease from chamber.

[FireBallGuy]

Just want to say thank you to everyone who has responded to this post, I have learned a lot from all of you. I will get this barrel clean one way or the other and between all the good advice I have got here a solution should come REALLY soon. Thanks again everybody!!!

[FireBallGuy]

Thanks joe, you gave me a crap load of insight. Untill I get this 204 clean it will not be shot again. Monday morning I need to place an order with dewey, seems I need NYLON brushes in 17, 20 and 22 caliber. Have got the point that most of these new upscale solvents are best used with nylon brushes so that is what I will get. About this graphite technique, does this apply to a new barrel only? When you do clean it, will all the graphite be removed? If not, how long does this treatment last? A change in powder is also in the works, I have wanted to try BL-C2 anyway. The only problem I have is that where I live is that we only have 2 gun shops in a city of about 750,000 people!?! Some of the stuff you mention they have not even heard of so my only option is to mail order and hope they can ship to canada with no problems. This patch out does intrigue me as it sounds like it is little to no work to get your barrel VERY clean. I picked up some hoppes #9 benchrest copper solvent and have been patching it through the bore pretty much all day and there is STILL a lot of crap on the patches. I really want to get to finding a good load for this gun but I will not let me wants overule my needs, THIS TIME!!! Kind of shocked the hoppes stuff is pulling out more copper than CR-10, I have used CR-10 for a long time and have not had a copper issue untill this savage 204, just my luck I suppose.......Thanks again for ALL of your help guys.

[skipper]

FireBallGuy

I wet a patch with Hoppe's #9 and run it just into the throat of my rifle. Let it sit there for a good fifteen to twenty minutes. Then push it on out of the muzzle. If it's black, keep scrubbing. I think that a lot of members have noticed powder residue building up in the throat area and hardening to the point of becoming porcelain. Keep an eye out for this condition. It will kill accuracy.

[jo191145]

I got this from a bench rest guy who has several world records.
Use Bore Tech from Sinclairs with a nylon brush, follow the directions and it will clean the barrel better than anything else and has NO ammonia.
Dan

By the way. Welcome to the forum Dan

I haven't had a chance/need to try the Bore tech eliminator. I have heard good reports on it.
I'll agree on this point though. The days of strong ammonia based copper solvents are over

Whatever these new non ammonia based solvents are using they out perform the ammonia stuff by a long shot. The fact they're much safer on bores is just another plus.

Wipe-Out (with Accelerator++)
Patch- Out (with Accelerator++)
Bore tech (trusting you on this one )
KG-12

All non ammonia, highly rated and gathering converts daily.

FireBallGuy

Maybe one of the reasons Hoppes BR solvent is working so well is because its new.
It seems to me the ammonia based solvents weaken with age. Especially if your like me and leave the cap off occasionally. Ammonia evaporates pretty fast leaving them relatively useless.

As for the graphite. Yes I suppose it can be easily cleaned from the bore. Much easier than moly or WS2 anyway. I usually do not bother trying to remove it all. Its proven (to me anyway) to be benificial so I leave it. Usually a few patches of carbon solvent, 10 strokes with a bronze brush and patch dry will remove the carbon. The patches will still copme out slightly dirty. This is the underlayer of graphite.

I'll then switch to Patch Out with either a nylon brush or none at all depending on my mood.
I do get a little green but it seems to be from the throat area not the entire bore which is what really destroys accuracy.
After two or three cleanings it will probably all be gone and your need for it should be also.
I quess I should add that as the graphite leaves the barrel your need to remove carbon and get it squeaky clean will be greater.

All your trying to achieve is run many shots down the tube without massive copper accumulation so the barrel has a chance to wear evenly and smooth up. This is just like the clean and shoot break in period but without the cleaning. Just shoot

New or old I'd use it on anything that coppers severely. I'm not sure if my old 03-A3 barrel will ever smooth up but so far its shooting with just specks of copper after its first cleaning as opposed to the Orange bore it came with. It should be good enough now to try some load develpment. I'm not expecting much out of this very worn barrel but I've learned that developing loads with visible copper in the muzzle is fairly futile.

[FireBallGuy]

How can I get a hold of the company that sells this patch out product?

[jo191145]

I got mine from Midway.
How tough is it to get things shipped North of the border? Do a lot of suppliers refuse to ship anything gun related to Canada? I simply do not know.

Wipe-out and Patch-out are products of Sharp Shoot R Precision Products.

www.sharpshootr.com

[FireBallGuy]

Had no problem getting a 20 cal rod, brushes etc. from dewy, showed up in a week. This hoppes stuff is working but it is a slow go. I would prefer something that will expidite the copper issue as dog season is just around the corner and DO NOT have a clue what the gun likes yet.

[FireBallGuy]

Talked to terry paul of wipe out fame today and placed an order for the foam, the liquid and the accelerator. Wonderful man full of helpful hints. Should have the stuff in a week or so, can hardly wait. He told me in my case that I should use the foam and let it sit over night and re-apply untill the barrel is in fact clean. He also suggested that for at the range, the liquid stuff is quicker and easier so I ordered the lot of it. No problems sending the stuff to canada, he even knew where I lives and even better yet, he knew how to SPELL IT!!!! Thanks again jo for all of your input on this matter, so I suppose I can throw out my numerous bottles of "Old School" barrel cleaning CRAP!!!!

[Cadeuses]

Talked to terry paul of wipe out fame today and placed an order for the foam, the liquid and the accelerator. Wonderful man full of helpful hints. Should have the stuff in a week or so, can hardly wait. He told me in my case that I should use the foam and let it sit over night and re-apply untill the barrel is in fact clean. He also suggested that for at the range, the liquid stuff is quicker and easier so I ordered the lot of it. No problems sending the stuff to canada, he even knew where I lives and even better yet, he knew how to SPELL IT!!!! Thanks again jo for all of your input on this matter, so I suppose I can throw out my numerous bottles of "Old School" barrel cleaning CRAP!!!!

FBG... do you have a link that the rest of us Canucks can order through?

[FireBallGuy]

http://www.sharpshootr.com

[jo191145]

so I suppose I can throw out my numerous bottles of "Old School" barrel cleaning CRAP!!!!

Not quite, Save the mild stuff like Shooters Choice bore cleaner or Hoppes #9. I and others have found Patch-Out and Wipe-Out do not cut carbon well. Neither does a nylon brush.
A few wet patches of mild solvent, 10 strokes with a bronze brush, patch the bore dry then proceed with the Patch-Out.
The overnight method is best IMO. To speed clean I alternate between the accelerator and P-O on the nylon brush and scrub a lather. It depends on how much copper is actually in the bore.

I'm betting your going to be quite pleased and amazed with this product. Don't forget to overnight your "clean" 17 firball too. I hope Paul is sitting on a big pile of money, he deserves it.

I still have a shelf full of potent copper removing products. Occasionally I'll try one on a new problem tube just to remind me how easy life has become thanks to Paul.

[FireBallGuy]

As far as the "clean 17" goes, it was not clean at all!!! Had no idea a hummer could get copper!?! So far, the only "Clean" gun I have is the marlin 22 mag and another savage FVSS in 22-250. I know this because it is still sitting in the factory box......LOL!!! Ya, I was very pleased with the way paul treated my inquiry today and the fact my order is going out tomorrow. Will let the 204 sit until I can "Clean" it proper as we like to say and then we will see what she can do. Once the tube is finally clean and starts to smooth out I think all will be well in my world. I am also thinking that once this thing does settle down that a bore lapping might be in order, told this makes a world of difference from the cleaning standpoint as well as accuracy. Enough from me now, thanks yet again jo for making me aware of a better way to do something we all hate doing.....CLEANING!!!! More time shooting.......Less time cleaning........Got mine!!!!