Carry handgun for calling predators in case a cougar attacks

[Silverfox]

I would like opinions on the Smith & Wesson Model 915 in 9mm. I have a chance to buy a good used one with under 100 rounds through it. Extras that come with the pistol are a holster, trigger guard laser, three high capacity magazines, and 100+ rounds of ammo. I'm looking for a carry weapon while out calling predators. We have a fair number of cougars up here in NW North Dakota now and I would feel safer with some type of handgun available in case a cougar decides I look like lunch.

Before this 9mm came up, I was very serious about purchasing a S&W revolver in .357 magnum, such as the Model 686 and 686P with a 4" barrel.

Another gun that has come to my attention is a new caliber from Ruger--the .327 magnum. I think Ruger is the only company that makes a handgun for this caliber. I believe it is the Ruger SP101 revolver with a barrel length of 3.16" or so.

I would welcome any and all thoughts on this topic. The .357 Magnum is about as much recoil as I care to handle. I shot a S&W 44 Mag revolver and that's too much gun for me.

[acloco]

SilverFox - is the S & W a police turn in weapon? If so, these have non adjustable sights tuned to +P ammo.

Otherwise, excellent weapon.

Personally, I would not want to defend myself against a mountain lion with the 327 magnum (32 special on steriods). Bullet selection would help, as I would alternate between round nose and something that expands rapidly. But, neither bullet will offer the comfort of something with more knockdown power.

I regularly shoot a Taurus revolver in 357 mag (double action) and find the recoil perfect with 158 gr bullets and Hodgdon HS6 or HS7. Accuracy is excellent as well.

You are at a crossroads, go with the firepower of the 357 magnum or with the higher capacity of bullets with the 9mm.

[dannybracy]

I would say that a 9mm would be a round that you could rely on. Many police agencies carried it for a long time. Of course ballistically it is not the same as a .357 mag, but I PERSONALLYwould feel more comfortable with a greater round capacity.

You could make up ballistics by buying a good personal protection ammo like Pow'r Ball. That is what I use in my carry .40 cal. A .40 cal should have somewhere around a mild 400 ft.lbs of knockdown force, but the Pow'r Ball for it has 526 ft. lbs of knockdown force which is more than a standard .45 cal cartridge should have. I think a .45 cal should have about 500 ft. lbs or less.

The Pow'r Ball ammo has a synthetic ball inside a wedge hollow-point that penetrates through clothing(animal hide/kitty fur) and then allows the hollow-point to open up inside the cavity to do its Van-damage, instead of a hollow-point getting stuffed with clothing/fur before it gets in the cavity. I think they were around $25 per 20 rounds......but I have them---they are designed for personal protection when you need them-----and hopefully I will never have to use them but I know that I have them!

If you think it is a good deal and like the feel of the gun and how it handles, it is my opinion that I would feel comfortable carrying it if recoil is an issue for you. Also, I don't think a .40 cal has that much more recoil than a 9mm...but it is up to YOU! And I went through the same thing w/ the lion question while I am deer hunting in the winter timber here in Iowa. In my Carhart bibs I am sure I look like a double plumber corn dog to a hungry lion......but I have a little extra lead protein for him now!!!! -Dan

[futuretrades]

i have to agree with the 357 magnum. i have and shoot often a smith 686 w/ 6in barrel. i shoot a lot of 38's with a load of titegroup behind a 158 gr. copper plated hollow point bullet, just for fun and to get away from the recoil of the magnum. shoot um a lot and love it. my load for the magnum is 15.0 grs of 2400 behind the same bullet, with magnum cci primers. and i will load some jhp, 158 gr. bullets, and i also shoot 125 gr. jhp bullets in 357. i would be very comfortable shooting a big cat that wants a piece of me with any of these loads. after all, if he gets that close, put 4 rounds in the chest area and 2 in the noggin.

[Rick in Oregon]

Silverfox: I'll weigh in on this one too. First off, in police shootings nationwide, the .357 Mag using the 125gr JHP has the best record of one-shot stops on record. The recoil impulse of this load is comparatively mild compared to the heavier bullets. A 4" stainless Smith would be a good trail gun for cats.

Second, "operators" in our military know full well the inadaquacies of the 9mm. Guys in the know at FBI HRT all carry .45ACP's, as do the SOCOM boys, Marines, SEALS and others who have actual experience in this area. The recoil from a .45ACP is not as severe as a combat load from a .357. During the war, I had up-close and personal experience with the stopping ability of the .45ACP, and that is what I would carry in your situation, in the 1911 platform of course (my experience here also dictates that this is exactly what I carry daily - Kimber Ultra Carry CDP-II w/230gr Ball).

You can juggle ballistics with .38+P, .357, .40 S&W, 9MM with super bullets, etc., but when the chips are down, the .45ACP is and will remain the premier fight stopper every time, and you can take that to the bank. The 230gr ball round feeds in every pistol, you don't even need premium HP's or any high-priced 'super bullet', as the ball round just plain "gets it done" every time. Get yourself a lightweight alloy frame 4" 1911 such as a Kimber CDP or like quality 1911, and you'll never look back.

I have a good friend here in Oregon that has killed over 200 cats over the years with his .22 Mag Marlin rifle (mostly treed - a previous post discusses this). It doesn't take a lot to kill one, but when one is pouncing on you up close, the quick action of either a 4" .357 or .45 would do the trick in short order. I stress the 4" barrel on anything you choose, easy to pack, quick to deploy, and decent ballistic performance from any round so chambered.

A personal defense handgun is a very personal thing, this is just my opinion, and others will differ. But I would never bet my life on any weapon chambered in 9mm. Let us know what you decide.

My choice for daily carry for predator protection (2-legged and 4) - short. light, powerful enough for any encounter:



If you PM me, I'll tell you a story about a Medical Examiner friend in a large city, and what he has to say about the 9mm......

[Silverfox]

acloco--I don't know if this is a police turn-in weapon. I think (don't know) that my friend purchased it new, but can't swear to that.

I want to say, "THANK YOU" to all of you for your valuable input. I have quite a few months before I will be making the purchase of a handgun, so if any of you think of any additional information, please share it with me. The purchase of this handgun will probably be the one and only handgun I buy from now until I quit hunting. I want to make the right decision.

I wonder what kind of trade-in price I could get for the S&W 915 in 9mm with all the goodies that go with it? I have given some thought to purchasing that pistol and then trading it in on a different handgun and maybe coming out a bit ahead on the deal. My friend is asking $450 for the whole lot.

Thanks again!!!

[dannybracy]

I wanted to say that I totally agree with Rick and I too carry either my.45ACP or a more concealable 40S&W. I gave my input on the notion that you were decided that a .357 was too much recoil(should have read it a little better), so if you were going to get a 9mm I wanted to make sure that you didn't just use the 115gr target ball ammo with it and that you used something with a little more punch. If this is going to be the only pistol you have I second the idea of considering a .45ACP as the go to round. -Dan

[Captqc]

Another vote for the .45ACP, my other choice would be my Sig P226 in the .357 Sig configuration (I also have a .40 S&W barrel for it). You could also consider something like the Tarus Judge which shoots both the 45 Colt and .410 shotgun shells. Gary

[cracker]

Silverfox you always give great info on this and other forums and i feel honored to give you my 2 cents worth. I for one hate the 9 mm and here are a few of the reasons. I am a taxidermist and had a good costomer who had a deer he was hunting get hit by a car and had to be finish off. he called the police to do this job so he would not have to use his tag on this deer. he brought the deer in to be mounted and said the officer shot it three times behind the ear. I asked why three times (we taxidermist hate holes in the hide.) he said it took that many shots to put it down, we looked behind the ear and pulled all three slugs out with our fingers they were in just as deep as they were long. We also had some woman do something that required several officers to shoot her, they connected 17 times and she lived to sue them. If I had a cat after me I would throw the 9 mm at it and hope to scare it off. as for more capacity I dont think anyone could get more than six shoots off and hit the cat with all shots fired. I would opt for a 357 revolver but then I am a revolver guy. again this is just my opion.
Sportingly
Cracker

[sniper model 12]

I have been currently looking for a Con. Carry gun. . . XD is on the books as a top contender....

I currently have a Mil spec 1911A1 Stainless from Springfield with some slight mods....

I have heard all sorts of stories regarding all sorts of calibers and which one is better. My 2 pennies:

College buddy, his wife, and myself are relaxing after midterms. Him and I decide to get some drinks down the street. While we are gone a local hoodlum makes the near fatal decision to sneak in the back door of the house. Both my buddy and his wife are MP's finishing college after discharge....Glock 9 mm is gun of choice for them.

The Cockatoo sounds the alarm that "Intruder alert! Intruder alert!" Which was answered by the wife with a pistol. The hoodlum managed to get out the front door before she could get her glasses on to see. When the police arrived and questions were asked, it was stated that they were glad she didn't shoot because of the kids on the other side of the street and next to my buddy's house. The officer would hate to take her to jail for NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE

I went a couple days later and bought my .45 ACP and have no regrets or worries.

[Rick in Oregon]

As this thread was about a handgun for carry in case of a cougar attack, one thing that has not been mentioned and is about as important as the gun itself (besides practice), is the holster.

If you are calling in Kitty Country, pick a holster that allows extreme accessability and speed of draw, as if you ever get pounced on by a cat, you will never likely know he was even there before he's upon you. Speed of draw of the handgun is of paramount importance.

It doesn't matter what you're carrying if it stays in the holster while Kitty chews on your neck......

[Sidewinderwa]

It is strange that I carry a baby Glock 40 as a carry gun for two legged varmints but if I think that something is going to EAT me, I always carry a revolver! I agree with Rick that a 4 inch barrel is very good length. A 6 inch revolver will dig into the ground when I sit down. I think that a 9mm is too small for a defense weapon, even the military is upgrading, to a 45 ACP. I do not like safeties on a defense weapon, unless you have practiced with it a lot and it is second nature to operate the safety in an emergency situation when you are not always thinking the clearest. I used to compete with a revolver and have always counted on it's reliability. The 40 S&W is comparable to a 357 in performance. Whichever gun you choose, practice with it a lot so that it's use will be automatic if you have to use it in an emergency situation. You will always revert back to how you practiced in an emergency, so practice for an accurate and then quick shot.

[Jim White]

Silverfox,

A lot of good info here. Perhaps I over looked it but I didn’t see anything mentioned about a 10mm. It’s a darn good cartridge with similar hitting power of a 357 Magnum.

I have an abundant of other calibers and I would choose a 40, 45 and 357 Mag/Sig over a 9mm. If I really felt serious I guess I could bust out the 44 Automag but I’d hate to tote that thing around.

As far as auto loaders goes, make sure it functions. Glock’s are ugly as heck but they sure do function…. 1911’s are pretty reliable as long as they aren’t too tight from an accuracy job. Those big S&W autos (4506, 4006, 1006) are built like Iowa class Battleships. There are other good ones as well but remember, some can be finicky with different bullet shapes.

Good luck & HTH,

Jim

[OldTurtle]

For it's stated purpose, I'd go with the .357 magnum revolver as well... I even carry one when I'm out for Prairie Dogs loaded with snake/bird shot,,,just in case..

As pointed out, a cougar attack is most likely to be up close and personal and I'd hate to be rolling on the ground and worried ,subconsciously, what the effect of a recoiling slide was going to do to my ribs...especially from the higher powered semi-autos...

While it doesn't take much to kill a cougar, in the event of an attack, I want something that is more likely to lift or move it away from me, that to depend on it bleeding out while still hanging on...

We used to carry .357s on duty and I've shattered concrete blocks with the Speer Lawman series 158gr soft points....the only down side is that it puts out a 9 ft ball of flame from the muzzle...

[JBinMontana]

Here is my ALL outdoors carry Glock 20SF 10mm Auto with 200-gr Hornady XTP loads for daily carry, and for outdoors carry I use the Double Tap 200-gr WFNGC @ 1300 fps