.223 AI???

[WaltherP99]

Well...I am getting the itch and I have been researching calibers as of late and for some reason I can't get away from the thought of adding an "Ackley" to the bunch. Besides, the .204 and the .22-250 need another brother!

What kind of convincing info or personal experiences can you guys give me to help me along? Is it worth it?

Add anything you would like!

[Rick in Oregon]

Walther: Don't know about convincing, but I'll just say it's one of my personal favorites for prairie dogs, rock chucks and ground squirrels. It allows me to launch Nosler 50gr BT's at the same velocity my 223's shoot the 40's (easy 3,700 fps). With the ability to also shoot 55 grainers at impressive velocities, it borders on 22-250 territory, using much less powder getting there, with less blast and recoil also. It is one of my pet 500 yard guns.

Forming cases is as easy as shooting virgin brass in your new chamber. I always fireform on ground squirrels or other live varmints, as no sense in sending perfectly good varmint bullets into the berm. Accuracy on fireform loads is excellent, with one five shot group from my custom M700 going into .116" (55gr BT/H-335). It seems to be a very accurate cartridge in every rifle I've ever seen chambered for it. Our buddy here, acloco also shoots this caliber, and I'm sure he'll chime in also.

The comparison with the 204 for scale:



This is "Black Death", my M700/McMillan/Pac-Nor/Jewell/Leupold 223 Ackley Improved at work on PD's in South Dakota:



Cooling down on a hot day:



If you like the 223 and the 204, I'm betting you'll LOVE the 223 Ackley!

[acloco]

Ditto x6 what RIO said. Yes, I have six. Like it so much that I bought the reamer.

Bought the first rifle complete: Rem 722 action, tuned trigger, Hart stainless barrel 1:12 twist. Very good shooter.

Built the next 5 with Savage actions, 3 factory barrels, & two aftermarket barrels. The three factory barrels are 1:9 twist and provide excellent accuracy on 50/52/53/55/60/65/69/75 gr bullets. Primarily use 55 Vmax/BT and 75 gr AMax in these rifles. 55's run 3550 in the heat of the day (you can push it a little more, but why beat on the equipment). 69's run 3300 and are VERY accurate. 75 Amax at 3150 are great fun, especially at distance.

Literally just returned from the range, sighting in a fireforming brass in the latest creation. 28" straight 1.25" barrel with 1:12 twist on a Savage long action, single shot, all bedded in a Choate Ultimate Varminter stock (I figured more weight could not hurt...so the barrel and stock belong together). Easily see all of your hits with this setup.

As RIO stated, don't waste your time fireforming, site in and go to the prairie dogs or other vermin.

Other shooters are VERY surprised how much this adds to reaching out there a touch more.

I have not tried any 40 grain bullets, so, cannot comment on them. But the 1:12 twist should do just fine with them. I have shot the 1:9 twist Savage barrels with 40 gr VMax and accuracy is excellent.

To go on the cheap, Lee has a 2 die set in 223 AI for 28 bucks. Redding has the full monte setup once the bug catches you.

[WaltherP99]

I appreciate the replies gentlemen and I believe you guys summed it up! I am starting to consider myself a "Small Caliber Nut" and want to add someting odd/custom to the bunch. I was thinking about something in the 6-6.5mm range and also consider the .17 FB BUT I am starting to consider cost and availability in ammo/brass and "cool" factor. The Ackley's fit that bill quite nicely, IMHO. I have a gent who does my reloading for me sooooo custom loads won't be an issue.

RIO: That's a great looking rifle and I never get enough of seeing your "stable". I also have to make plans in the future to get out to your end of the country! It drives me NUTS hearing about the amount of shooting you guys are able to do out there.

Acloco (I think I may understand the username after this conversation! ) How do the Savage actions handle the .223 AI? As far as feeding and the such is concerned? I assume it to be the same as the regular .223 but ya never know!

I am unsure of the platform I wanna use but I have enough time to get that figured out!

Again, thanx guys and if you feel like adding anything else, feel free to do so!

[acloco]

Half of mine are single shots and the other half are repeaters. One repeater feeds flawless. #2 does ok, except for the last round.

[WaltherP99]

What do you think #2's issue is? Case/Follower related or some other issue?

RIO: How's your m700 feed?

[Rick in Oregon]

Walther: My M700 223AI has been converted to a single shot action via a single shot follower and a McMillan single shot stock, so feeding is not an issue, as this rifle is a dedicated bench gun for colony rodents. Which I might add, has been a very long and "colorful" history.

Just because we all love this stuff, here's another one of Black Death in the field:



In regard to feeding AI cartridges, some light Dremel or file work on the follower is usually all that's required to feed properly because of the reduced body taper and stronger shoulder angle. Get a used follower to work on to get it right so you don't goon up your only original unit. It's usually not that hard of a job. Watch what's happening closely in regard to a mis-feed, light file, try till it goes smoothly.

[WaltherP99]

I guess I could deal with a single shot!

IF and WHEN I get this rifle done, it may be used for punching paper more than hunting anyway which will lead me to my next question. Benchrest competition...short to medium range...can this cartridge compete?

Also, while looking into barrels I noticed that Shilen list's there barrel as a .252 neck. Would I be right in assuming that this is a tight neck? If not, please go into more detail and explain if you can. I know a bit about rifles but I must say that I may need some guidance in that area!

[Jim White]

Rick, acloco;

It sounds like a 223 A/I is a perfect cousin to a 204 Ruger. I never really considered a 223, I just figured everything a 223 would do, a 204 would do better over a longer distance. Of course, changing the twist of a 22 cal certainly tips the scale quite a bit.

Based on both of your reports. I too like the high impact over long ranges with minimal blast and powder consumption, thats what I really enjoy about the 204.

Jim

[Rick in Oregon]

[quote="WaltherP99"] Benchrest competition...short to medium range...can this cartridge compete?

Also, while looking into barrels I noticed that Shilen list's there barrel as a .252 neck. Would I be right in assuming that this is a tight neck? [quote]

Can it compete? Depends on what you're shooting against, but "no", not for registered BR competition where the 6PPC reigns supreme. Preimum varmint cartridge, accurate, but not a BR competition round. It shoots noticably flatter than a 223 Remmington.

.252" would be considered about SAMMI spec, so is not a tight neck chamber. My 223AI loaded rounds mic right at .246" and my Pac-Nor barrel, chambered by Darrell Holland goes .250", which is a "no turn neck" spec to enable a snug neck in the chamber but does not require neck turning of factory brass.

[WaltherP99]

Can it compete? Depends on what you're shooting against, but "no", not for registered BR competition where the 6PPC reigns supreme. Preimum varmint cartridge, accurate, but not a BR competition round. It shoots noticably flatter than a 223 Remmington.

I would be going up against the regular "run of the mill" small cal's (204, 22-250, 223, 243 etc.). The comps are at my club and it's pretty much "shoot what ya bring". I shot one a couple of weeks ago and finished 2nd out of 7 rifles with the .204. The 1st place gent (shooting a 22-250) only beat me by 1/8" (if he was lucky) due to my .204 not shooting as expected! I still think my smith changing the primers on me did it!

.252" would be considered about SAMMI spec, so is not a tight neck chamber. My 223AI loaded rounds mic right at .246" and my Pac-Nor barrel, chambered by Darrell Holland goes .250", which is a "no turn neck" spec to enable a snug neck in the chamber but does not require neck turning of factory brass.

So, that being a SAMMI spec chamber, would that require neck turning? The reloading is going to be left up to my smith so that ball isn't in my court but if I can get better accuracy by going with a tighter neck than I may explore other options!

I'm all about the accuracy!

[Rick in Oregon]

Walther: Okay then, in that case (all my opinions, others may vary...) "yes", a good 223AI could easily hold it's own against other varmint calibers at your club.

In regard to custom and tight neck barrels in .224 caliber, a tight neck chamber would be considered in the area of .246". Brass for that neck diameter would most likely need light "clean-up" neck turning to ensure both consistent bullet release and adequate neck expansion area for safety. As you know, too tight of a fit in the chamber in the neck/bullet area can cause dangerous spikes in pressure. Rule of thumb is for at least a total of .001" clearance (.0005" per side). And this would be for a match/competition gun at the range, not really designed for live varmint rifles that will see much more field use under less than match conditions. I for one would not relish neck turning 1,000 new cases for an upcoming rat season.

I usually design my chambers around the intended use the rifle/caliber will see in regard to neck dimensions. For what I call "BR Varmint Shooting", you can't beat the "no-turn" neck....the best of all worlds, and plenty accurate for small critters a long way off.

[acloco]

Depending on brass, 252 may be a tight neck for the brass.

I use Rem, Win, RORG, & Fed. I neck turn all lightly.

Run the ballistics at Hornady.com....and use a conservative 3550 fps for the 55 gr bullets.

In your rifle competition, I would not hesitate running 69 gr HPBT (Sierra or Nosler) or 75 gr AMax out to 600 yards....they are that good in the accuracy department.

One item that needs mentioning.....after initial brass prep, you only have to tumble clean, clean the primer pocket, and load.

I load 85% of mine on a Dillon 550B with Benchmark or H4895.

[WaltherP99]

Again, thanx for the info guys! Unfortunately, you may have opened up a can of worms for yourselves cause you will be my "GOTO' guys for the .223 AI!!!!!

I gotta pick the smith's brain and see what he says about reloading it! I am sure he won't have an issue with it but it doesn't hurt to check!

As for brass...I'll be using winchester. I've had good luck with it in the .22-250 and it will help keep things consistent. I may end up switching over to winnie for the .204 here in the near future. Cheaper than Hornie brass.

I appreciate the help guys!

Maybe I will do this build for fun and save the serious BR for a later build..... just be vewy vewy quiet and don't tell the woman! She already thinks I have enough!

[acloco]

You "traded" for this new to you rifle....right? We are here to help.