SmallCaliberCentral

I'm in the market for a new rifle to shoot 300 yard prone and three position matches. The rules are, any sight/scope,any caliber and NO rests, sling only. One thing I do know is it won't be a gas gun! I would also like it buck the wind better than the 20 cal 35gr Bergers,and be easy on the wallet to shoot. I'm thinking maybe a 8 twist .223 to shoot 75gr bullets or something in 6mm. I did manage to find one that interests me with it's 8lb weight. It's the Tikka T3 Tactical with 8 twist 24 inch barrel. http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/Tactical.pdf . Does anybody know if the stock on the Tikka Tactical is the same as the Stainless model. I held a T3 Stainless Varmint today. Didn't care for the plastic stock at all . Next I looked at a Remington 700 with green web HS stock and R5 barrel in .223. What's the deal with the R5 barrel?? Any other suggestions on a rifle or specific cartridge would be appreciated.

10FP in 223????

Mike: Think 6.5 Creedmore. It's got everything you ask for and more. Factory ammo available, dies, designed for precision accuracy with maximum wind bucking ability, high BC bullets, reasonable to reload for, short action cartridge, efficient, and designed by Emry at Hornady and a record holding match shooter. Check it out before you decide anything.

I've shot NRA highpower for a number of years, managed to do fairly well a time or two. Most of the matches I shot were with a Win Model 70, in .308 Win. Everything from across-the-course matches 200, 300 & 600 yards, standing, sitting and prone, and also long-range prone events to 1000 yards. Good stuff. Often used sights, sometimes the scope when allowed. I was always surprised at how well shooters up and down the line could do with match sights, but the scope was my preference. Weird, because I actually shot my better scores with irons...







Eventually ran out of time to shoot most matches (working more weekends), and decided to simplify my life with one rifle for both Highpower and "tactical" type matches, a Rem 700 in .308 Win. Krieger barrel etc... Very nice shooting rifle, gives up little to the longer barreled Winchester at 600 and under.


I've stayed with the .308 for some very good reasons to me - but the 6.5 Creedmoor, the .260 Rem, the 6XC... All offer superior ballistics. Less wind drift, excellent accuracy, good barrel life. Maybe someday I'll take my own advice and try a 6.5!

The .223 can also do very well, although it tends to suffer in the wind, particularly at longer ranges. That said, it can shoot surprisingly well, even at 1000 yards.

Frankly, it's more the shooter than the rifle. Learn to use that sling. Don't waste a lot of time trying to work up the "perfect" load - you can win matches with a solid 1/2 MOA load. Might not even need one that good. Trigger time, even dry fire. Most important is judging the wind...

Let me know if you've got any specific questions - I could go on and on and on....

Regards, Guy

I'm currently using my Savage Predator rifle and the flimsy plastic stock is NOT sling friendly. Besides, that's my hunting rig. I actually shot one of smallest groups at last Sundays 300 yard belly match. Too bad it was the LOWEST score of the day . The 30mph cross wind took me for a ride and plopped my shots in the 6 and 7 ring. Didn't bring my spotting scope so I had no idea I was so far off center. I made the proper adjustments for the 2nd 20 shot string, but it was a day late and a dollar short.. The rifle I'm in need of only needs to perform out to 300 yards. That's why I was thinking 7-8 twist .223 shooting 75gr pills. We'll keep looking for another week or so, then I'll probably end up with a trued and timed Savage target action,custom 20-24 inch barrel on a HS stock .

Regardless of caliber, you might consider recoil as your deciding factor as well.

Shooting a 308 with 168 gr bullets for 200 shots (+ siters) is not that fun when shooting prone, IF you are shooting a factory class type of event. Heavier rifle, no problem.

Thought about a 260 Rem or 6.5x55 on a newer action? 7mm/08 would also creep in there as well.

A fast twist .223 barrel and a sturdy stock would work wonders... I'm thinking a laminated stock instead of the HS Precision... About the same price and you can get it built to suit you instead of taking whatever HS Precision is churning out by the gazillions...

Fellow named Joel Russo make some superb laminated stocks for target & long-range hunting rifles. I'm sure he'd make one for you. Let me know if you want his contact info.

Regards, Guy

Guy: You look like a serious match shooter in that shot! Very business-like 'game face'.

Guy,

Which side of the Cascades are you on? I was ATC service rifle shooter myself. I tried a few belly matches 600-1000 yards and its a challenge, although a good challenge is a M14 @ 1000 yards with the old 173 grain Special Ball ammo (this precceded the 118LR thats more common today).

Jim

Hawkeye Joe,

The only 5R barrel I'm familiar with is made by Boot's Obermeyer (although others do make them and I'm not sure who made them for Remington). Mine is a 308 1x10 twist on one of my M1A's (the other sports a Kreiger 1x10 twist). This barrel has shot several military style 308 bullets out to 300 yards and it has never let me down although 147 ball bullets were a challenge at 300 yards but then again, on that day everyone had to shoot them and I came out pretty good. Back in early competitive days whern I was chasing EIC/Leg points for the Distinguished Marksman (Rifle) Badge the M14 was the most prominent choice, followed by the M1 (308) Garand. In those days ammo was issued on the line and it wasn't always M852 (168 SMK bullet) so one had to tailor the rifle to the load rather than the load to the rifle.

The "5" stands fo 5 grooves/lands and I have always heard the "R" stands for "radiused". A google search will also say it stands for "Russian". Either way, the lands have a slight radius on both side of the land. This also helps reduce copper fouling. Here is the link to Obermeyer Barrels;

http://obermeyerbarrels.com/faq.html

FWIW, if I had to replace any of my rifle barrels this is the one I would use. The down side is, he's a one man shop and has been doing a lot of military work for the past few years so depending on what you want it may be a wait, but, on the other hand, he may have it ready to go. His rifle barrels are "single point cut" which tends to add more barrel life than a button cut barrels which is important to a Service Rifle Competitor because when the barrel is shot it can't be wacked off and set-back for an extended life like it can on a bolt action rifle.

Here is a picture I found doing a search. It's not that great but it does show what the lands look like.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/venture.php

HTH

Jim, mostly I shoot at the North Central Washington gun club, Wenatchee, WA.

Haven't made many matches recently - first due to injuries and the healing up process - then a change to my work schedule. Seems I'm now working most weekends, and unable to shoot most of our local matches.

I have shot at Rattlesnake, Paul Bunyan, Machias and Plantation in Washington as well as over at the Blacks Creek range near Boise and at Chilliwack British Columbia.

Hoping to do some more match shooting in the future.

Hawkeye Joe - Remington has built some rifles with the 5-R barrel, but I don't know much about them. Have never used one myself. Whatever you get, after a season or two the barrel is going to need to be replaced anyway, so start with whatever you'd like and start shopping for a replacement barrel soon. Tikka has a fine reputation for accuracy. If that's what you'd like to shoot, have at it!

Regards, Guy

Guy M wrote:Jim, mostly I shoot at the North Central Washington gun club, Wenatchee, WA.

Haven't made many matches recently - first due to injuries and the healing up process - then a change to my work schedule. Seems I'm now working most weekends, and unable to shoot most of our local matches.

Guy,

Roger that. SInce I retired from the Navy its tough to shoot a match with my work schedule as well because I work every weekend unless I take a vacation day. I shot on a couple of years ago just to maintain my HM classification. Bye-golly, I earned mine with a M14 (aka, the hard way) I figured I would try and retain it.

I do miss competitive shooting although, this day in time I don't miss the price of feeding these machines.

Hope the injuries won't keep you out long. I have a Navy buddy who is a Distinguished Pistol Shot and now wants to do the same with the rifle. The problem is, his left elbow is giving him fits so the prone rapid & slow fires is giving him fits.

Good luck,

Jim

Thanks Jim. Yes, injuries are healed now - no problem, but they took me out of rifle shooting for a bit... Ugh.

M14... Yes, that's tough! I earned my HM with a .308 Model 70 bolt rifle... I know - that's cheating... But it worked really well!

Dunno when I'm going to shoot another match. Pretty active club here - but weekends off are best spent with family for me. The "kids" are growing up way too fast and I don't want to lose many weekends with them. One is already off, serving his country. The other is still in high school.

Regards, Guy

Guy M wrote:"...but weekends off are best spent with family for me. The "kids" are growing up way too fast and I don't want to lose many weekends with them..."

Regards, Guy

Amen to that. With my two oldest, I missed a lot with them since I was gone a lot (with deployments and all) and that time can never be recouped.

Jim