SmallCaliberCentral

Thinking of building a new long range rifle for use on targets, and the occasional pronghorn when I head up north. Only thing is, I can't decide on a chambering. I'm new to the realm of long range/benchrest shooting, and haven't even heard of half the calibers many people talk about


I'd prefer to keep it under .280 diameter, that's about the onjly criteria.

Question:

What chambering should I work with?

Mr. P.: First, how much do you want the finished rifle to weigh? Approximately anyway. Will it primarily be used for targets then, with an occasional foray into the field after speed goats? I ask this because of terminal ballistics versus shooting comfort at paper or varmints comes into play.

If paper is the primary target then, figure your average intended range. If varmints and paper, I'd guess around under 500 yards. For pronghorn you want adequate bullet weight and velocity to give good down range performance on game, and good accuracy for the varmints I know you'll want to snipe with this rig.

Just my two cents, but for what I think you're after, I'd build up something on say, a Remington, CZ, or Ruger action for the cost factor, and chamber in something easy to load for, good brass availability, along with bullets, and powder. Right now without knowing more, I'd build up a nice short action chambered for the .260 Ackley Improved, or 6.5-08 Improved, the same thing, different name. Even the standard .260 Remington would be good, but if you're going to build something, the improved version will get you from 150 to 200 extra fps.

You have the excellent and inheriently accurate .308 Win case necked down to 6.5mm, flat shooting, easy on the shoulder, good to 1,000 yards on varmints depending on barrel contour and rifle weight, and a great little all around rifle for thin skinned game.

One of my very experienced "operator" friends is having one built right at this moment in tactical configuration (M700) by Darrell Holland with your exact expectations, except his will be used for a slightly different venue. (There is a myriad of custom accessories for the M700)

Do some research, listen to other opinions, but I think that is about what you're after. Let us know what you decide.

I am partial to the .260 Rem. Or if you feel the need for a little more speed, 6.5/284. Don

Dang, Rick. I wasn't fast enuff. And you had more to type......Don

Go with a 6.5x55 on a modern action. Next option would be the 6.5x06.

Why? Look at the SD and BC of the bullets. None better than the 6.5's across the board.

The "new" benchrest caliber is 6.5x284...same as a 6.5x55, without buying expensive cases with a rebated rim.

Ha! Good thing I can type about as fast as I can think...come to think of it that way, that's not very fast at all.....

I voted for the .260AI because I think he'd have much less barrel wear with it versus the 284 case, less recoil and muzzle blast, not to mention he can use a 22" or 24" barrel and still get decent velocity and carry weight. Also the short action would offer more rigidity and weight advantage over a case such as any wildcat based on the '06 (I know you can use a short action with the 284, but bullets must be seated deep and that uses up some useful case capacity it offers).

The 6.5-284 sure is a screamer; I've used it on PD's and was amazed at the performance.....IF you're willing to pay for it in terms of barrel/throat wear.

Primary target is well, targets. Of the paper variety that is. The pronghorn trips are once a year at most, when I feel like taking the 19 hour ride to see the grandparents.


I just read an article in one of my old Guns n Ammos, and the reloading section was about the 6.5x.284. Looks like a very capable round, but the recoil might be a bit higher than what I'd like. How much difference in recoil would there be between the .260AI and the 6.5x.284?




I have no action preference, whatever is best within my price range is what I'll get. Looking to spend no more than $2,500 on the rifle alone. Gunsmithing and optics etc. not included. I'd like to keep it under $2,000 if at all possible.

Weight is not an issue, preferably as heavy as possible to minimize recoil for the long days at the bench.


Preffered stock would be something of the tactical variety, such as a McMillan A4 or A5.

Barrel length depends on caliber.

Trigger weight, preferably under 16oz.

I'd like to have a gun with no detachable mag, and no floorplate if possible. I guess you'd call it an ADL or single shot, not sure.

That's all I can think of for now.




Thanks for the info Rick, I'm leaning towards the .260AI right now. I don't want to have to replace the barrel every 1000 rounds, I don't have the money to support that >.<

What about a .257 Roberts AI, or a .243 AI? I already have a steady supply of .25 cal bullets for my .25-06, and that might make things a bit easier on the pocketbook.

Thanks a bunch,
MrPillow

"Weight is not an issue, preferably as heavy as possible to minimize recoil for the long days at the bench."

What about the long days in the field, humping a heavy bugger? I went the other way.......A liteweight kimber montana that goes 6 lbs all up.But then again, I don't spend much time sitting still that long. Skinny barrels can shoot.........Just maybe not sustainedably(cowboy term). here is 3 shots at 102 yds. on a home-made cardboard target, from the hood of the truck.....

I might get one "long day in the field" per year, and that's if I'm lucky. 99.999999% of the time this will be a benched rifle.

Mr Pillow 257 Roberts AI is a great round! Had two now just one. I Think the 25-06 is a little better in both accuracy and veloclty. The 243ai is good and so is 6mm ai. The 6mm ai is the one I am going get for long range.

my vote would be either a 6mmBR or a 6MM AI... but you have to reload...

check out http://www.6mmbr.com

For years I have used a Ruger .243 with a heavy barrel cut down to 18 inches it will take a Pronghorn Deer or squirel. Just be for I cut back to the 204 I had made a 5ll yrd hit on a sage rat with it. The 243 is easy to deal with it is not finicky about its ammo and recoil is light I shoot 70gr bullets. The other day I found a used Ruger 243 with the Heavy full length barrel in a gun shop down here there was an urge to buy it but I resisted they wanted $560 for it. They are good shooters.

Mr Pillow: The .243 Ackley Improved is not a bad idea as Ryan mentions. I own and operate a full custom blueprinted M700 Holland .243AI (Pac-Nor SS Super Match/McMillian stock/Jewell trigger/Leupold 6.5-20X) that I'd be glad to share load data and loading notes if you decide to go that way.

My longest shot on a critter was with that rifle in Montana, 841 yards on one unlucky prairie dog; got him on the second shot, launched him about 4' in the air off his mound, even at that range. Bullet was the 70gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Using that caliber, you'd have good brass availability, bullets in a wide range of weights and designs, recoil would be very manageable, especially with a brake (mine has one...can see bullet holes appear in targets, or rats fly...), and it is easy to load for. Let me know if I can help.

After reading some things on the interwebs, I've come to notice something.

Would it be cheaper in the end to buy a pre-built rifle, than to buy all the components, + smithing, + etc.

More specifically, I was looking at the TBA M40a5, or the GA Precision Crusader. Both are near the $3k ballpark, less optics. Would the cost of all the gunsmithing, shipping, and other things run the cost of building from my own choice components bring it up to figures like that, or would it be cheaper?

Mr. Pillow: IMHO, you'd be ahead doing what I did a couple of years ago when I built my custom 243AI. Here's the drill I used, total cost under $3000 for the complete rig, including all the custom smithing, optics, dies, brass, original donor rifle, ready to go to the rat patch.

I started out with a box stock M700 ADL in 243 Win to get the action with the proper bolt face. I sold the stock and take-off barrel on the internet, gained $100 towards the project. I then sent the action to Darrell Holland with instructions on what I wanted.

Doing it this way, you get exactly what you want, with no compromises. Yours will differ from what I did, as I wanted a bench rifle, not a dual purpose. This rig reaches out past 800 yards on PD's, squirrels and chucks with great authority, shoots under .5 MOA all day, and is a joy to shoot with the brake. Here's some shots of mine for you to check out.

Here's a comparison of the standard .243 Win and a fireformed .243 Ackley Improved case: (3800 fps w/Nosler 70gr BT)



Here's the rifle on the bench during a squirrel shoot. I use this rifle for afternoons when the wind is up, and I need to wack rats past the 500 yard marker.



A shot of the Holland Quick-Discharge Brake (I can see holes appear in paper at 100 yards, or see Skippy launch every time.....)



This is a shot of a ground squirrel mound as seen through the 6.5-20X Loopy at 610 yards. Skippy is down in this shot, but was soon launched when he decided come out and cop some rays.



For quick reference, I tape "come-up" data on the inside of my scope caps, giving me instant reference to the needed elevation adjustments needed for each shot at extended range. You must have a good laser rangefinder, and have your pet load plotted via a chronograph. It's deadly accurate in the field, and enables hits beyond what you'd think you're capable of. This is the current system our snipers use when deployed for first shot hits at extended range. (It works quite well....)



Hope this gives you some material in order to make your decision. As I said, your rifle will differ, but get it all down on paper before parting with any hard-earned bucks. Good luck with the project regardless of what route you take.