SmallCaliberCentral

Last weekend I went on a P Dog outing with a couple friends. We had planed this hunt about eight months ago. I picked up a Savage 12 VLP chambered in 204 and put a 6x18 Leupold with a target dot on top.

I had suggested they do like wise. But they bought new uppers for their Ar's spending within a hundred dollars of what my rifle cost. Telling this old man they could do what I could do, just wait and see. They both put $100.00 scopes on top, with no turrets and to thick of a cross hair. I ask them if they were going to get some new triggers and they said they could get buy with what they had. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with a good Ar, my friends just needed some improvements on theirs.

I also suggested that we get together and build some shooting tables. I told them we could make some good tables for around 75 dollars. If we look real hard for materials may be cheaper. They told me they had some plastic folding tables that will work and we could get by.

Well after this weekend I think they learned a lesson or two or three. When the old man speaks they need to listen. Now this was their first rodeo, so don't be to hard on them. We arrived early and was able to get about four hours of shooting in. As we approached the field they were mesmerized with so many mounds and P dogs running for their lives, back to their mounds and ignored the old man yelling stop, stop. We finely stopped, and they looked at me and said we were to far away, we need to get closer. So they jumped out of the truck and took off walking. Well you know the rest. So back they came. I had set up my table and got everything ready and was waiting on them. School was about to open.

Since this was their first time I let my friends shoot first. Well they had sighted their Ar's in at 100 yrds. and didn't listen to my suggestions, telling me they could just hold over and be all right. I had suggested they sight in for 300 yrds before we left home and tried to explain what they were in for but, OH WELL.

After they had each shot about 10 times each with no hits . That was when I went to work. My longest shot of the after noon, using my range finder was at 532 yrds. As they set their watching me use my dope card, dialing in my shots, was priceless. Old man 10 dogs for 15 shots, friends 1 dog each for 40 rounds fired. Don't get my friends wrong, they can shoot, and shoot well. Just not at the ranges they were encountering with a 90 deg. 10-12 mph cross wind. They just had never shot at the ranges they were encountering, with cross winds. Well that night at the hotel school was open again.

Day two was much better for them and we all had a good time. Things I think they learned.

1- They need better scopes, and triggers.
2- We needed better tables, and they should have made some sand bags.
3- They need better binoculars
4- Most of all, they needed to have printed off the range cards I emailed them.
5- That an old man with a Savage VLP in 204 with 39gr HBN coated Blitz Kings, with a good scope, and a range card knows a few things. My longest shot for the weekend was 678yrds. But it took me 5 shots to make it, I know, I know, but I'm 60, and things don't, work so good anymore.

Next spring, I'll see if they payed attention in class. We had a great time lots of laughs. Shot a lot of dogs, and they want to go back. May be next spring we wont forget the camera, laying on the kitchen table.

I also want to say thank you, to all of you who have posted on this forum about using HBN its a life saver, almost as good as Viagra.

Sand Rat

sand rat: Yep, sounds familiar. The gear-intensive sport of shooting rodents at extended ranges does indeed have a learning curve. If not set up properly, the trip and experience suffers accordingly. A 'good time' can be made into a 'stellar event' if all shooters do their homework prior to leaving home for the priairies.

Here's my setup that has evolved over the years since 1968 (yeah, I'm old too, and maybe, just maybe finally have it figured out):



Like you mentioned, good rotating bench (BR Pivot), good binoculars (Leupold Switch-Powers), decent front rest or bench bipod, good handloads tested in the rifle to 500 yards at home, 'come-up' chart for the load being used, the best optics you can afford (Leupold in my case) and an accurate rifle.

I don't care for 'range cards' to be taped to a nice stock, so a small font is used to print out the 'come-up's' in MOA and stuck to the inside of the scopes ocular flip cap. Easy to see from the shooting position, just click in the elevation indicated on the card, hold for wind and touch 'er off (with a custom trigger if possible):



When done properly, this is the result:



We old guys with lots of experience can tell the young'uns HOW to go about it for the best results, but they have to actually LISTEN. Glad to hear you all had a good time.....sounds like the next outing will be even better. Oh, and one prime piece of gear you don't want to leave at home......the digital camera!

Moral: Old age and cunning will triumph over youth and enthusiasm every time.

We old guys need to try to school the young guns, but will they listen??? I have the same rifle as you and a really nice shooting bench from Bend.
I would like to get a copy of a wind direction chart for shooting though. We all need to keep learning.

PM sent......

Well, I guess I'm somewhere between young and old. FWIW, I will be 46 in a few weeks. I started reloading (rifle) when I was 16. Did it for 28 years exactly like that old Speer Manual said to. They always went bang and usually landed fairly close to the desired spot. Mostly did it to save money. Somewhere between 2 & 3 years ago I started poking around on the internet reading about how BR shooters did their reloading. I bought a Savage 12VLP (easy Rick) and found THIS website. Here I found the detailed information on equipment, tools and prep that I had been looking for. Also, got a lot of questions answered. Now I can not say that I reload to save money. New Cooper on order, new scope waiting, better dies, numerous tools and gadgets and have started building a "clean" room in the shop just for reloading. I now reload for precision. I have all you OLD and, not so old FARTS here to thank for any improvements over the last few years. What I'm trying to tell you "old farts" is to keep sharing your' knowledge and advice because it is very much appreciated, and it does get put into practice.

Well youngster Ramos, I was in the same place as you. Nice choice in rifles by the way! Sometimes you feel like a "nut" and make long shots on those little critters. This is my favorite site as there is so much good information out there by people with a lot of experience and knowledge. I have sure learned a bunch here. Some good guys that have some good fun while doing it. Some light poking keeps things interesting at times.

sand rat...I can relate to that story, many time over. But where it really hits home is when I was my later years in the Navy (as well as with my own kids). These youngsters (darn kids) always had things figured out. I've always said, slackers, electricity and water, always takes the path of least resistance.

Anyway, in this instance their task ended up taking another 6 hrs because the didn;t heed my advice. I just told em'; "I guess I'm just an old dumb CPO (Chief) who's never been down this road".

I hope you told them after you nailed some of those dogs way out yonder that the "class is dismissed".

Jim

Their was one Dog I nick named the Ghost Dog. He kept poking up way out their and I never got him. On Sun. the wind had settled to a lull of 2 to about 6 mph left to right. I never got the lazer to range him, their was nothing around him to pick up, but I estimated him just a hair over 450 yrds. I was working on him in the after noon heat and the mirage was reading a left to right wind.

I held off his left shoulder and pressed the trigger and the shot went about " what it looked like" about 8 in. left. Ok, he ducked and ran about 3 ft. right, and looked at the dust cloud from the bullet. The mirage, had changed to a boil, I put the dot on his chest and hit in what looked in the same amount left. He ducked and ran another 10 ft right and looked at the dust cloud again. Third shot I took a mirage reading and cranked the scope down to about 10 power, thinking the mirage as playing tricks on me and pressed the shot again the bullet strike was left again even after putting a couple clicks on my scope.

Well that was the way it went the rest of the afternoon. But only on this one dog. He kept returning to the same place and I never hit him. I kept poking at him off and on all after noon. Had no problems with the other dogs that afternoon, only him. Kind of freaky. I guess it wasn't his turn. Never could figure him out.

The only thing I could think of was, he was standing along a fence line that was made of rail road ties, and the fence was having some weird effect on the wind, making my bullet do funny things. I was setting about 3 ft off the fence shooting straight down the fence line at him.

Sand Rat

Sand rat, awsome post . Thank You, My motto is if I do not learn something new every day, I am Not paying attention! Courtisy of my DAD!
happy shooting