SmallCaliberCentral

"The Hill" can be seen on the far right of this photo. Note the rockslide on the left, at 525 yards away. Some quartz deposits on the rocks made for perfect varmint-sized targets for sighter shots using the "dial-a-rat" method I prefer. Pivot the bench, range a suitable sized rock, dial and shoot. You can easily see the hits from a 204 or 223, and not waste a shot on a rat you would have missed. Your first shot now is gonna be spot-on....bye-bye Skippy!



Two of our crew from western Oregon set up benches on a hill at the ranchers house. The hill was 450 yards, (direct laser measured) overlooking the center of a rat infested field. We were set up at 90* from them, at 525 yards to the center of the same field......see the relationship to the rock shooting mentioned above? It was very cool to watch the dust signature from them shooting, miss a rat, them wack/launch the rat from 525 right out from under them so to speak. What fun (the pic was shot from 500+ yards using a 200mm tele lens from our shooting position).



Yours truly drawing a bead on Skippy with my Cooper Varmint 223. With the intense heat, I wanted to shoot a caliber a bit slower than my 204's for barrel-saving heat issues. Even shooting 40gr BT's at 3,700 fps, it was a chore to keep our barrels cool this trip:



This was only about a 225 yard shot, but you can see the rat flying in the dust signature:



Here's Gary (Captqc) pondering where the next squirrel will appear, dreaming about his new Cooper Phoenix 204 somewhere between Ohio and Oregon:



This place is so nice, it's almost like varmint shooting in a park; perfect! Here's Rat Force One (our favorite infidel) and Garth relaxing in camp cooling off from a hot day in the rat patch:



One of our alternate positions was on a hill overlooking a peninsula on the lake at the ranch. This is Captqc's and my setup, "beachside":



Big hole, little squirrel: (Probably moved into an old badger hole. Hitting these guys past 400 yards is a real feat, believe me...)



The terminal effect of a Nosler .224" 40 grain Ballistic Tip at 3,700 fps, courtesy of "Rosa", my Cooper .223:



Sorta turns 'em inside out, no?
This is a parting shot of "Rosa" cooling her hot barrel under my shade canopy wearing her new Leupold Alumna scope covers....very nice addition, and they fold flat if wanted.



She got a good workout this trip, and I'm now looking at an impressive pile of freshly tumbled brass ready to reload for next season. I can tell now that the "Cooper Curse" is upon me, and possibly Captqc also (can't have only one.....) Hope you enjoyed the trip pics and have a great varmint season in your own area of our great country.

Sweet!! Thanks for sharing & glad everything went Safely!!

Nice display Rick. Sounds like you guys had a real ball. I did manage to get out on Sunday and got some great action photos of skippy flying through the air . I should have the pics posted in another day or so. We are getting a bunch of "much needed" rain right now, so the grass maggots will get a break for a while.

That's gotta be tough work shooting that Cooper all day.

I held a Cooper for the first time last week at Sportsman's Warehouse and I can see why the price tag is what it is. It was a beautiful rifle and felt like pure quality to me.

Rick what do you mean you can't be happy with just one Cooper?????? I just got my first one and don't even have a scope for it yet and now you are saying I HAVE to get another!!!!????? Well okay, if you say so but what caliber You are a very bad influence on me! Man I love this stuff!!! Gary

Hey Rick,
I think its time to get that hat of yours to the dry cleaners. Or maybe you can talk Leupold out of a new one, or just spend the bucks for a new one!

Captqc wrote:You are a very bad influence on me!

I have to agree with you Gary But like you said."I love this stuff" and I am easily influenced too! Just got my new CZ452 American in the "Hummer" caliber up and running. Just need to get some time to get out and do some shooting with it!
And yes, I am blaming RIO for using his magical powers on me OH and I did put a Leupold on her
Thanks Rick Gotta luv a new stick with great glass

Kevin: As soon as I find one of those little gizmos that clamps up the hat for the dishwasher, I'll snag one, but in the meantime, using Navy terms, that hat is SALTY! Quite literally in fact. That hat is too experienced to replace....it's been to thousands of squirrel funerals!

Glad to hear the new Hummer is up and about. I get the best results from Hornady 17gr Varmint Express compared to any other brand of ammo. Both my CZ 452 Varmint and my Ruger/Lilja Hummers love the stuff and both shoot it right at .5 - .6 MOA most of the time.

I don't consider myself a bad influence any more (even though I probably am). Now I'm a Purchasing Mentor for those in need. Sounds good eh? Wifey sez it's still B.S. Girls, what do they know?

Rick in Oregon wrote:Now I'm a Purchasing Mentor for those in need. Sounds good eh? Wifey sez it's still B.S. Girls, what do they know?

Purchasing Mentor I love it. Where do you come up with this stuff? I have to agree with you, "Girls, what do they know"

so far, I have only found the CCI hollow points. I really don't like them. I will pick up some of the hornady's as soon as I find some. also, I have adjusted the trigger down as far as it will go. Need to get out and shoot again to see if I am satisfied with that. But I think I will be looking for another trigger for it. Any suggestions will be appreciated. as you know, i don't have to discuss this with anyone but myself. I don't think I can afford another woman in my life for a long time!!!

Purchasing Mentor: Definition - a ~5 year old term borrowed from the good folks at Saubier.com... A montdoug creation, IIRC.

So, Rick, does that Cooper at least rank as good as those off the shelf Kimbers, or is that question still in doubt here on the 4um....?

http://www.varminthunters.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=22437

I escaped SD (First Stop Guns - Rapid City, SD) with adding just one to my collection, but ended up ordering another after I got home... It's now here and going to the range today - 218 Mashburn Bee.

-BCB

BCB: Actually, that term is shamelessly "borrowed" from a friend's wife who used it around 1990 in reference to the relationship between her husband and me. He was seriously getting into varmint shooting, and I was "helping" him spend money wisely on quality items, and she came up with the term after learning about a recent large purchase her husband had just made.....after some 'mentoring'.

I'm familiar with fellow RVN Vet, 'montdoug' over on Saubier also, consider myself a friend of his, and am sure even if I'd used the term here and elsewhere without credit, he'd most likely care less. Nonetheless, Doug was not the first to coin the moniker it appears, as my friend Shirley used it in pre-internet days in reference to me while she shrugged her shoulders and let out a girl "big sigh".

Cooper/Kimber: Can't honestly say anything in regard to comparison. Have not shot them side by side, but the Kimber's mission is to be magazine fed for mobility and targets of opportunity. It shoots ammunition with mag-length loads very well, but can not compare to the Cooper in this area, as it is one of my dedicated bench guns, is heavier, has a single shot receiver and much heavier contour barrel. As such, I can load to the lands and get stunning accuracy using my 40gr BT load that is much longer than book max. If I had to guess, the nod would go to the Cooper hands down, but you already knew that.

Rick in Oregon wrote:BCB: Actually, that term is shamelessly "borrowed" from a friend's wife who used it around 1990 in reference to the relationship between her husband and me. He was seriously getting into varmint shooting, and I was "helping" him spend money wisely on quality items, and she came up with the term after learning about a recent large purchase her husband had just made.....after some 'mentoring'.

I'm familiar with fellow RVN Vet, 'montdoug' over on Saubier also, consider myself a friend of his, and am sure even if I'd used the term here and elsewhere without credit, he'd most likely care less. Nonetheless, Doug was not the first to coin the moniker it appears, as my friend Shirley used it in pre-internet days in reference to me while she shrugged her shoulders and let out a girl "big sigh".

Cooper/Kimber: Can't honestly say anything in regard to comparison. Have not shot them side by side, but the Kimber's mission is to be magazine fed for mobility and targets of opportunity. It shoots ammunition with mag-length loads very well, but can not compare to the Cooper in this area, as it is one of my dedicated bench guns, is heavier, has a single shot receiver and much heavier contour barrel. As such, I can load to the lands and get stunning accuracy using my 40gr BT load that is much longer than book max. If I had to guess, the nod would go to the Cooper hands down, but you already knew that.

I'll concede the term then; Doug was likely the first to use it internet wise. And knowing Doug personally like I do, I'd agree; I'm sure he would have no problem with your use of it either. I was merely trying to fill in the internet use of it... At the time it was a huge discussion topic at Saubier. And the term is widely thrown around over there by everyone.

I asked the other question as awhile back I received several very vitriolic e-mails from your supporters here telling me I was an idiot for comparing a Cooper as being better than a Kimber if RIO said they were equals. I wasn't sure they had seen your comments on GGVG after you acquired your first Cooper as it had become a non-topic with no follow-up discussion here. I still had the e-mails...

And since you decided that you still can't compare the two rifle here since they are totally different in function, I'll wait until you buy your first Cooper Classic. You can even get the Cooper Classic in a repeater now. And even though you've shown numerous Kimber pics "on the bench" during your outings.

As an aside, the Cooper VT (Model 21 in 223 Rem), like you have, has a spec. weight of 7.25 pounds... Your Kimber (Model 84M Varmint), like you have, weighs (spec. weight) 7 pounds, five ounce in 204 Ruger according to Kimber. Quite a difference in rifles, huh....? And the Cooper is heavier....?

-BCB

BCB: I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion tangent, but I'll try to clarify to your liking:

Cooper/Kimber: The two rifles scoped are much closer in weight on the scale (9lbs.) than they "feel" in the hands. The Cooper has a much heavier barrel and more bulky stock to ride the bags, the Kimber has a much narrower forend and lighter barrel, hence it just "feels" lighter when in the hands. Purely subjective, but one is just more suited to the bench (Cooper), the other more suited to being carried (Kimber). You are correct in that actual weight difference of the two is almost meaningless.

I like both rifles very much, both are made very well and their price reflects this (I know you feel Kimber is over priced). I'll still not say one is "better" than the other, but I'll freely admit because of physical design characteristics, the Cooper is the more accurate of the two (no surprise, solid bottom receiver, heavier barrel, et al). I realize you own both, and feel the Cooper line is vastly superior to Kimber. Fine, everyone has an opinion, including me, and my opinion is that both are superlative rifles, but my Cooper is the more accurate of the two. No significant revelations here. You were correct though, in that once I obtained a Cooper, it most likely would not be the last.

I was unaware of any "supporters" I may have in regard to any vitriolic e-mail you may have received, although is it possible you may have ruffled a few feathers with your usual cynicism? You do not join in on any discussions here, post any outings, nor do you ever comment on a "job well done", "atta boy", or "what a great trip" someone may have had, as you only seem to pop in to "correct" some small detail in the conversation. Sort of like sitting back behind everyone around the campfire, not part of the discussion, but always willing to jump in at a time of your own choosing.....

Regardless of all said, we know you are an experienced and knowledgeable shooter, albeit highly opinionated (like most of us...). Your opinions ARE valued here, but personally, I'd rather be reading a post of someone's recent varmint adventure instead of clarifying my comments to you continually. Lighten up bud, it's all good, and we're all friends here.

Edited for spelling blunders....(there may be more)

Tanks for the picture story Rick. Very nice place to shoot, looks like a golf course.

Took my 12 yr old grandson out last weekend for his first time shooting (not just watching) p-dogs. He even got a couple at 240 yds.
His school begins next week, but he informed me that some days he gets out at noon, so he says he can go shooting again!

We used 204's.

It got a little warm and we had to walk a little far from the truck to drag the canopy along, so once the temp hit 88 we hit the shade and went out again after 6 pm.

Rick in Oregon wrote:BCB:

......Your opinions ARE valued here, but personally, I'd rather be reading a post of someone's recent varmint adventure instead of clarifying my comments to you continually. Lighten up bud, it's all good, and we're all friends here.

Maybe part of the problems is how you make your comments: Your statement about the Cooper was a non-factual opinion, in part.... But you tried to state it as a total fact for the uneducated to swallow. (Is that because you believe yourself as being a total authority here on anything you type, whether you're stating a fact or an opinion?)

"....as it is one of my dedicated bench guns, is heavier, has a single shot receiver and much heavier contour barrel."

I wasn't expressing opinions about the weight of the rifles.... I was expressing documented facts. I apologize if correcting incorrect information as you stated it is not acceptable to you. There's a very simple solution to that problem....be sure of the "facts" before you state them for public consumption.

You have a nice one.... and again, try to stick to stating the real facts first and folks like me who have become fed up with the Internet "Opinion Highway" won't correct you on obviously incorrect information.. That's a fairly simple concept...isn't it...?

And for my concept about the "Opinion Highway", its not just mine. The internet ("Information Highway") has lost a lot of good knowledgeable folks in our sport in the past 2-3 years who have gotten fed up with other folks who express opinions as facts, and think its totally OK to do so..... The internet hasn't always been that way...

Finally.....if I want anyone to see pics of my outings, I'll post them... If I don't, its probably because the pics are being used for other purposes, and I hope that is OK around your campfire... My pics... I decide... Another fairly simple concept, huh...?

No lightening up would be needed if other folks will only state facts as facts and not as uneducated opinions stated to further other folks' lack of factual information. It becomes kinda' like "the blind leading the blind" if done long enough... One instance of when you stated facts here that were disputed, where I totally agreed with you, concerned the cougar/22 mag issue. I can work both ways if the opportunity arises.

-BCB

[quote="Bayou City Boy"]

Your statement about the Cooper was a non-factual opinion, in part.... But you tried to state it as a total fact for the uneducated to swallow. (Is that because you believe yourself as being a total authority here on anything you type, whether you're stating a fact or an opinion?)

"....as it is one of my dedicated bench guns, is heavier, has a single shot receiver and much heavier contour barrel."

Swallow? Are you kidding? "Total Authority"? Give me a break, this post was about a recent outing with friends; I had no idea that any/all mentions may be subject to snopes.com or further scrutiny. BUT my Cooper IS heavier by .33 lb. Scopes and mount weight enter into this equation. I was unaware that anyone was taking notes on rifle weights to make life-altering decisions, as I was just making a casual comment. Sheeezz.

"Blind leading the blind"? Everyone here is blind except you....correct? Again, lighten up. Every time you post here I see a trend....... This forum is about fun, maybe there's someplace else for you.


Arizona Hunter: On a much different note, thanks for the comments, and I'm glad that you were able to get out with your grandson for some fun with the dogs. On those hot days, it sure is a chore to keep those barrels cool. Keep him interested, as they're the future of our sport. I'll be glad when I can get mine out there soon....still a bit too wild, but his day will come too.