SmallCaliberCentral

Hi to all,

I'm new to the board, but have been reading and enjoying for quite awhile. Has anyone heard anything about the gun manufacturers offering the .204 in less that a 1:12 twist rate? Seems to me the bullet manufacturers are right on the money with the 39 to 50 grain offerings but the gun manufacturing sure isn't keeping pace with the .204 caliber potential.

Jake: What got the 204 Ruger off the ground commercially was pure speed, plain and simple. That, along with the very flat trajectory the speed offered is what got the publics attention initially. The 12 twist was specified to send the 32 grain bullets downrange at the factory advertised blistering speed of 4,225 fps, and the ball was rolling.

Since that time, more and more shooters have discovered the caliber, and as a result, the natural experimenting came about with more experienced shooters opting for the heavier bullets for the better ballistics offered by their much higher BC. The barrel makers then jumped on board to this fresh demand with faster twist barrels to properly stabilize the heavier bullets. But the factories, still relishing in the newfound sales of their rifles with the original 12 twist, are always slow to react, with the exception possibly of Savage, which seems quicker to react to market trends that the other large makers. I'd expect Savage to be the first factory to offer faster optional twists for the heavier bullets, but I doubt you'll ever see one of them offer 8 or 9 twist barrels for the 50 & 55 gr bullets, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, some rookie would buy one at the local gun shop and then complain about "inaccuracy" or other problems associated with the rifle not shooting the 'standard' 32gr bullets well.

I should note that mentioned here before, is the fact that for the .204 caliber 55 grain bullet, there are much better case choices for this heavyweight than the 204 Ruger, such as the 20 BR, 20-250, or the 20 PPC. Maybe even a 20 Swift, all of course with 8 or 9 twist barrels.

The end result is that if you want an 11 or 10 twist barrel to take advantage of the 39, 40 and 45 grain current offerings, then a custom barrel is the only way to go. I had a reamer ground and used it in my M700 Pac-Nor 11 twist barrel primarily for 39 and 40 grain bullets, and I've never looked back. I still shoot my two other 12 twist rifles with both 32's and 39's, but the 11 twist is the realy meal deal for shooting the heavier bullets, and the targets reflect the faster twist advantage. You can have it, you just have to build it yourself......at least for now.

Rick,

Thanks for the reply. I did see your post with your new custom. Beautiful gun. Have you grouped your 1:11 Pacnor barrel with the 39 SBK at 600 yards?

The reason for my question is I wanted to try some F Class. In comparing 39 SBK, 40 Hornady, 40 Berger, and 40 Nosler, the 39 SBK groups the tightest at 100 yds. in three different factory guns (Remington, Savage and DPMS).

The down side is the 39 SBK tumble in all three guns somewhere between the 500 and 600 yards. At 600 yds. many of the 39's miss the target or go through the target key holed (sideways) in all three guns. The three 40 gr. bullets are all hitting the target correctly at 600 (round holes).

I know your response is correct. I just may have to order a barrel to accomplish what I want. I am not sure if the 1:11 will correct the 600 yd. 39 SKB or I guess to be safe I could order a 1:10. I believe both Pacnor and Douglas offer the 1:10 and 1:11.

Jake: You're obviously more experienced than initially assumed. 'No', I have not put the 11 twist on paper at 600, only having it dialed last season on paper at 100 to confirm my 39gr load, then all other rounds were launched at our buddy Skippy in the field. I did connect on squirrels using that rifle to 585 yards, so I'd have to say that the 39gr SBK was indeed stabilized properly from the 11 twist. Strange that the 39's keyhole at 600, but the 40's seem to be stabilized in your 12 twist guns. Wonder what's up with that?

Not sure about Douglas, but Pac-Nor supplied my 11 twist .204 barrel as noted. This weekend I'm testing both the Nosler and Hornady 40's in that rifle, IF this rain/snow/wind ceases.

Good luck with your F Class project; sounds very interesting. I know we'd all like to hear the results once finshed.

Rick,

I thought the results of that 600 yd. experiment were unusual too. Have no idea why the 40's stood up and the 39 did not. Anyway, good luck with the 40 Hornady/Nosler tests. Let us know what you find out. It does appear that the 1:11 cured the 39 SBK to 600 yards at least in your Pac-Nor 1:11.

I'm wish I had a 1:10 or 1:11 on order right now but this economy is sure putting a dent in what I would like to do and what I am able to do.

Will do Jake, and you're not alone in the economy department either. Even getting out for an extended shoot now takes financial planning; nothing is like it used to be, and probably won't be for a while either.

Now if the rain, snow and wind would just take a break.......

4Jake, I took advice from Rick last spring and had a 1-11 Pac Nor installed on my Savage. The factory tube would key hole the 39 gr. BK's and I even picked a couple out of the 1/2" plywood backstop at 100yds and they were stuck in backwards! No kidding! The new Pac Nor is performing very well. I have not put it on paper past 100 yds. but have shot pigeons out to 400 yds. with good effect. TB

TOO, good to hear your comment. I see you're from ND, me too. It's good to hear the 1:11 worked in you Pac-Nor barrel also. It seems to me I've heard most if not all of the barrel makers allow +/- 1/2 inch on whatever ratio you are ordering. That's the only reason I was a little nervous about the 1:11. I would not be very pleased if I ordered a 1:11 and it came 1:11 and 1/2 inches and did not correct the 39 SBK problem I'm having with the factory 1:12 twist.

I recently rebarreled my factory 1 in 12 twist .204 Ruger Remington 700 VLS to a 1 in 10 twist Pac-Nor. I've yet to shoot it with the new barrel, but I'm looking forward to seeing how well the 40 gr Bergers perform. (Maybe the 50 gr Bergers too, I bought a box of those to try).

CV32, Good luck with your new Pac-Nor 1:10 barrel. Let us know how it performs with the heavier bullets.

Cooper may offer a different twist as an option. Does anyone know?

Yes, on Cooper's website at cooperfirearms.com, under "Custom Options", "special twist rate" is listed on the top.

I would agree with Rick, a 10 or 11 twist is probably superior for above 36 grain bullets, and at longer ranges.

I believe that DPMS, who makes an AR in .204, specifically states on their website that with its 1 in 12 twist, they only recommend bullets weighing between 32 and 36 grains. This may have some bearing on the functioning of the auto action as well as accuracy factors.