Shooting Advice and Technique

[Griff]

Hi all.

Equipment - Savage VLP .204 and Bushnell elite 4200 4 -16 x 50, Harris Bi Pod.

I'm reasonably new to this sport but if possible I'd like some advice from some experienced shooters.

I've been doing some fox spotlighting from the roof of a ute in the s/west of Australia with reasonable success. Most shots taken have been within the 60 - 200m mark - a couple out to 300metres (none successfully yet).

My problem is this. My rifle is more than accurate on paper - I'm shooting about half inch groups at 100m.

However, out in the middle of night, spotlight shining, I'm missing shots that I feel I should have made. I've been rock steady, crosshairs right over the mass of my target - and missing. Last weekend I shot three and missed three. I really should have made five out of the six - the 6th shot was at about 300m - a stretch for the light and for me.

As you fox shooters will know, you have a very limited amount of time to prep and let off shot before the fox spooks and heads for cover. As a result most shots fired are within 5 seconds of the ute stopping, being turned off and getting in to a shooting position over the roof.

Nonetheless some shots I have missed I feel I just should have made - as I said, they were not over a huge range and my crosshairs where dead on mass.

My rifle is sighted in.

The only other thing is that I am slightly short sighted - I wear glasses at night to see the foxes but not during the day when shooting paper.

I set my objective lens to between 100m and 150m (my most common shooting range) as an average and dont change it once a target is spoted - no time to judge distance accurately.

One other thing - my shooting buddy (a much better shot than me) does shoot high and to the left on paper when using my rifle - is this due to a difference in cheek weld?

Can anyone offer any advice as to why I might be missing these shots? Yes yes, the funny people of you will say that it's because I'm a poor shot - and your probably right! But any practicle advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Griff.

[Captqc]

Griff, what is your trigger pull set at? Perhaps in the heat of battle a heavy trigger is causing you to pull your shots. Just a thought, I know people with more experience will have some ideas for you. Gary

[Sam in Perth]

Hi Griff,

The way I look at misses is that it is either me or my equipment. I am sure you have your equipment in order, but given that you sight it in during the day without glasses and shoot at night with them, perhaps this affects your point of impact. Maybe you could set up a target at night and sight it in on paper out of the ute. This would at least eliminate your optics as the reason.

Maybe someone with more experience/knowledge on optics and vision aids will be able to offer more on this.

My usual trick when shooting (target rifle or hunting) is to jerk the trigger. This puts my shots up at 10 or 11 o'clock. Reducing the trigger weight may reduce this tendency, but I wouldn't go lower than 1 kg. I am used to this weight from target shooting but you may want to try 1.5 kg (safety first!).

To stop myself flinching or jerking the trigger I mentally focus on watching the shot through the scope. This keeps my head down.

Get your shooting buddies to watch for the bullet splash when you shoot. This may show up a pattern. If you are missing in the same area each time, you can either adjust your sights or look for a reason with your hold/shot release. If you are missing all around you need to go back to basics.

... Just read over that and I am not sure it makes much sense. Oh well, hopefully it stimulates some of the wise heads here.

Where in WA are you shooting? I've been going around Tammin lately and am absolutely amazed at how many rabbits and foxes are around, despite my best efforts.

[Critter]

My sense is that your problem is more fundamental.

Bullet time of flight for 300m is around .4 to .5 seconds. Now if I found that every time somebody illuminated one of my friends, he died. Then I would learn that whenever someone shown a light on me I would have about 1 second to move. Easily done if I were in any kind of shape at all.

So it would seem to me that you need to reduce your lighting to a bare minimum. Advantage we have with PDs is that they are stupid and will stand there with rounds landing all about them in the daylight.

Night vision sights might be another solution, although not inexpensive.

Also I would recommend paying very close attention to your parallax adjustment, particularly at night.

[Griff]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

Parallax is always going to be a small problem in this scenario. Having to spot the fox, steady and then shoot quickly - most occasions won't allow for any adjustment. Thus the 'average' setting of around 150m.

Sam from Perth - G'day and thanks. The simple things are often overlooked. I really don't know how much trouble the glasses give me during the night - but sighting in the rifle off the roof of the ute with the spot is a very good suggestion. I may just give that one a go next time I'm out.

As for jerking the trigger - I'm sure that is part of the problem. I have been trying to be very concious of making my trigger pull smooth and straight. I must admit that I do get excited and the heart starts to race as I bare down on a fox - which adds another problem into the mix.

I have not adjusted the trigger weight on my Savage model 12 VLP. It feels nice enough and certainly light enough by comparison to my marlin. Does anyone know what the standard weight is on that particular model out of the box?

I've been doing a bit of spotlighting down at a mate's farm in Darkan and shooting a few rabbits with my .17hmr on my inlaws property in Mt. Barker. All good fun.

Thanks all for the suggestions - keep em' coming if you have anymore.

Griff.

[Sam in Perth]

You may already do this, but carry a fox whistle with you (I just use a $2 "button" whistle). 9 times out of 10 a blow on this will get a fox to stop and have another look back. This may ease some of the mental pressure on getting the first shot away and help you be more relaxed.

Also, take your time with the shot. Sure, sometimes you'll miss an opportunity but other times you will get a better shot away, and as you do it more often the time it takes to settle and get a good shot away will decrease. I look at hunting like fishing, not all bites turn into fish on deck!

I have a Bushnell 4200 and do the same thing with the parallax adjustment and I haven't encountered any problems, so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

I was down at Albany in January for the centenary shoot, what a nice part of the world eh?

Anyway, good luck and be sure to let us know how you go, we can all become better shooters through shared learnings.

[kenbrofox]

Griff,
I can't offer any suggestions,but,like you, i too some times miss what i would consider easy shots for no apparent reason at night. I've been shooting far too long to get over excited about a shot and i can easily pass up a shot if i'm with a mate and they want to try. My trigger is set at 8ozs and i like to leave the bolt open until i'm ready.Same problem, but no consolation to you. Regards,ken.

[Ryan S Albright]

I tried to post you this morning but lost it. Try shooting from the set of your truck with a sand bag on the door. A truck will move with the least bit of shifting of your weight. I have had a couple of fox come right up to the window of my truck. They don't seem to see the red light I use..jpg[/IMG]

[sniper model 12]

The trigger on most Savage rifles are set at 1.5 lbs or 2 lbs from factory. Which provided that your gun is equipped with an Accutrigger, it is possible for a trigger slap but you'd have to be hitting that puppy pretty hard to get that trigger to jump off target.

I have made several failed attempts to shoot long distance (200 yds to 300 yds from the back of my truck with my 4 yr old in the bed spotting me) and even laying prone in the bed with a bipod, with all the time in the world, I missed more than I hit. I took the boy outta the truck and only improved my hits by a small percentage. Every little thing moved the truck! The wind was the biggest problem, but just racking a round in got the truck swinging! I was shooting targets smaller than a fox though, 4" steel discs.

I know fellas on this site that desert hunt on a high-chair from the back of a truck, but they are stopped for a while, not moving and quickly stopping for a shot as you described for your setup.

The other fellas have give good advise on the night practice. Try one thing extra though repeat the hunting situation: Drive up at the average distance and target shoot the same as if you are hunting. This may give some useful info on the missing too!

Eric

[Clint E]

Just a suggestion try shooting in the day with your glasses on then with them off. There is a neighber of mine that had to start wearing glasses. When he shot his bow practiceing he was dead on in the tree stand he shot low.Come to find out the glasses changed his line of sight.
As for staying calm when you call one in well good luck on that . I always tell myself in those situations if i cant hold still then i am not going to shoot .Works for me.
good luck

[Griff]

Thanks again for the great advice guys.

I went out the other night and dropped two from two... all out a good ratio but unfortunately they were not at long ranges. Still, it gives me a little confidence - and admittadly I wasn't as overexcited either.

For those that have been following this thread, I hadn't been able to test the advice that has been given - It was a really quick jaunt - so hopefully next time.

Griff.

PS - you are right about the 4WD movement - any little excuse and you will see it move.

[kasual1]

I have had similar experiences where I could just not understand how I missed shots. I know the gun and have faith in our capability to make the shot and nothing happened. I have convinced myself that I have hit twigs early in the bullets flight. This was from shooting prone with a bipod. The shots I was taking were 150 to 200 yards which was towards the limit of my 17 HMR's range for prairie dogs.

Have you checked the roof of the ute? I have a friend who tells a story of missing a 50 or so yard easy shot at a prairie dog from the hood of his truck. He could not understand how he missed. He racked another round of 22-250 and about ready to take another shot, when a young kid who was with the group said " Hey who shot the truck?" HA HA ... He had fun explaining this to his wife and the insurance company!
Through the scope he had a clear view of the prairie dog, but the barrel being 1.5 inches lower than the scope line of sight, actually sent the bullet into the hood (bonnet in Oz) of the truck (ute in Oz).

[Critter]

A little syntax correction here will show your pictures if they exist in photobucket.

[remy3424]

Have you checked the roof of the ute? I have a friend who tells a story of missing a 50 or so yard easy shot at a prairie dog from the hood of his truck. He could not understand how he missed. He racked another round of 22-250 and about ready to take another shot, when a young kid who was with the group said " Hey who shot the truck?" HA HA ... He had fun explaining this to his wife and the insurance company!
Through the scope he had a clear view of the prairie dog, but the barrel being 1.5 inches lower than the scope line of sight, actually sent the bullet into the hood (bonnet in Oz) of the truck (ute in Oz).

Thats funny....I did that as a kid once, shooting at a crow using the roof of my "77 Grand Prix as a rest. Was surprised when the crow flew away and then a few days later see a mark of the vinyl roof where the bullet left a 6 inch mark, split open the vinyl only!!!

Ray, is that flash a little bright at night!?!? The varmints don't seem to mind!!! Nice.

[maverick]

I'd be surprised if shooting from the roof of the ute isn't accountable for at least a portion of the misses. That high above the pivot point (tires) any movement or weight distribution change in the rig (may be as simple as fuel sloshing) will create an exaggerated movement at your rifle rest. Engine vibration (even a smooth running engine) will do the same thing if you don't take the time to shut it off on all shots. That's been my general experience shooting from a rig in large fields populated with squirrels. Affect isn't very noticeable on short shots, but as you start reaching out there, it really takes it's toll.