recoil eliminator

[sniper model 12]

curiosity

I've recently read some comments on recoil eliminators/compensators/flash suppressors that on most rifles they do their job in the displacement of the barrel gasses and controling muzzle jump.

However, the side effects could be as bad as improved accuracy (possible rezero when removed), reduced shoulder bruiseing (which leads to wimpy shooters), and deafness (when not properly protected while shooting).

From my experience, when that 204 snaps, the critter downrange doesn't know what hit him, but his buddies often do. I currently see the impact on skippy. And, they make good recoil pads for the big bores.

Why add one to a heavy barreled 204?

[Bunnybuster]

Not sure why you would add one to any 204. The bullet is supersonic, so there will always be a crack as it move through the air. It is also why the one you shoot never knows it is coming; the bullet arrives before the sound gets there.

The 204 has negligible recoil, even with a light barrel. And, realistically the muzzle blast and report is relatively.

[Glen]

To help a recoil shy or even a new shooter is the 1st two reasons I can think of. But I too wouldn't like the extra noise.

[sniper model 12]

The reason I'm asking, is a shootin' buddy just put one on his AR and loves the fact that he can single handly fire the rifle and not experience uncomfortable recoil.

Then he took off his ear mufflers.

He pestered me to get one on my savage mod 12. After a lengthy explanation of how I don't need a anti barrel jumper due to the fact that my 204 weights 15lbs and I'll get more shoulder pain outta a punch from the wife. . . .he agreed that it wouldn't be necessary for me.

Then I met a target shooter with one who has a similar rig to mine and loves his recoil eliminator.

I'm not getting one any time soon. My rig hunts.

[glenn asher]

I absolutely despise muzzle brakes on anything smaller than .22/250, and don't see the need for them on that cartridge, either. Simply setting up properly (uphill) from the PD patch will completely negate any need for a brake when PDog shooting. With the larger cartridges, the muzzle jump MIGHT be cancelled out enough to see the bullet strike, but probably not. I had a 6 BR that sure didn't need a brake on it, either, I was always able to see the bullets hit PDs with it, no problem, but it's barrel diameter was 1.25" and it was a heavy mutha.
My shooting buddy's BIL has a Winchester 70 Coyote rifle in .243 Winchester, and he seemed to get along fine without a brake on his rifle, but he was shooting very light bullets, making it the equivalent of a .22/250.

I think I got my bad opinion of muzzle brakes right after Remington came out with the .300 Ultra Magnum. I was shooting my HMRs at the range one day after work, and some yahoo came along and set up right beside me ( THE WHOLE REST OF THE RANGE WAS EMPTY) and started shooting that noisy SOB with a brake on it. It literally moved my rifles when I was trying to shoot, blew the muffs off my head (and my hat, too!). I packed up, loaded everything into the truck, and then went back and cussed him soundly and roundly for a good twenty minutes. His range etiquette was completely lacking and he got an earful. He works at a local gunshop now, but since he got that job, I've refused to enter the place, and gave his boss an earful about hiring a bozo like him. I'm not always sunshine and light.

[Rick in Oregon]

SniperM12: Good question to be sure. I also hate brakes, only have one mounted on my custom Holland 243 Ackley so I can see my hits on PD's and ground squirrels shooting Nosler 70gr BT's. It works excellent for that task, but NONE of my hunting rifles wear one of the things, and never will.

Most outfitters and guides here will not hunt with a client if he/she has a brake on their rifle. If the things kicks so much you flinch or causes bad shooting, get a lighter caliber for the game you intend to hunt! Interesting that for over 200 years, game has been successfully dropped from "standard" calibers, and in most of that time, nobody even knew what a muzzle brake was!

A brake on a HB 204? Come on, give me a break! (pun not intended....)

Glenn: Bad range habits/lack of common sense to be sure. One of the many reasons I no longer shoot at public ranges. A friend here at our local range had a similar story about a fool that showed up with his Barrett M82 .50BMG and pulled the same stunt. He made no friends that day.

[BabaOriley]

Glenn and Rick,
I could uderstand getting annoyed by someone sitting down next to you with nasty muzzle blast. That's not too cool, although...
I have a DTech AR-15 on the way, with a .920 heavy barrel, and a custom muzzle brake/compensator. I ordered the rifle with the compensator because it sounded like a popular option on DTech rifles. I've also been told my many that's it's not needed on any .204. I guess I just ordered it with the comp. because I could, thinking if it could possibly help see more hits, why not get it? Do you think it could actually harm accuracy? Hopefully I get the rifle before my challenge target is due back to Skipper, and we'll see how it shoots. Until then, and I can hear it for myself, you've got me wondering. Does having a comp on a .204 automatically make me a jerk? I'd guess that at the range, my .270 is much louder for everyone else without a brake than the .204 is with one, so whether you feel a brake is needed or not, does the "poor range etiquette" label need to be applied to anything with a brake?

And Rick, "Interesting that for over 200 years, game has been successfully dropped from "standard" calibers" borders on sounding just like all those saying there was no need for the .204 Ruger cartridge at all in the first place. Did you have a bad day or something?

Thanks for bringing this controversy to my attention here guys. I look forward to more info on the subject.

Respectfully,

BabaOriley

[sniper model 12]

Baba brings up a good point.

When I first began shooting, a .22 lr was the tool. Then Dad moved me to a .410, 20ga, and .243. Then this year I bought my first 12 ga turkey gun (Rem Wingmaster 28" vent barrel full choke).

I have been spoiled by the near zero recoil and light trigger of the .204. . . . Then I met a 3" #5 shot turkey load

I guess I'm wimpy. But after the bruise healed and my choke was tight enough and me and the buddy when turkey hunting and called in a couple of coyotes instead. . .it was worth it.

I then researched and found out that several mass manufactures as well as custom makers put flash covers, recoil eliminators, or similar apparatus on n e w guns as standard equip for hunting.

I don't think less of you Baba Ori. Try it for yourself and let us know what ya think!

[Rick in Oregon]

Baba: I think you're reading too much into this issue. Most AR's do have flash supressors/compensators, granted; it is part of the design feature to control full-auto fire and partially hide the muzzle flash from the enemy. This does not infer that anyone owning one or any other rifle with a brake is lacking intellect, as we were discussing bad range habits and rude behavior. And I did not mention that I indeed own a nice custom rifle with a brake intended for varmints. Bad day? Not at all.

By "standard" calibers, I was referring to non-belted, non-magnum calibers that do not require brakes, which the 204 Ruger truly is, even though it's a relatively new caliber. ANY varmint caliber is interesting to me, that's why I own and reload for almost a dozen of them.

Both my 204's are HB rifles intended primarily for shooting from the bench or bipod. Each weighs right around 11 lbs., and even using 20X dialed into the scope, I can see virtually all my hits or misses, so IMHO, a brake is not needed on a HB 204. You may not need the brake on your AR in 204, but it's your money and your rifle. This is a case of not what's "needed", but of "wanted", and as this is still a free country, do as you will.

[sniper model 12]

I shoot at the family's range. Each of us has either a 100, 200, or 300 yd range set up to work with. I have found that, through my experience, its often safer to throttle a family member than to chastise a stranger.

I do not have much public range experience. What I do have is with a couple of "just turned 21 so I bought a gun" fellas who spent a 550 box of .22lr ammo in about 45 minutes. If I didn't know different, I would say their "toys" were on full auto. Not to mention the "guitar style" holding method that was practiced.

Once they noticed my targets pileing with X's and such with controlled shots they began to take a little more time with their targets. Eventually they ended up beside me and I got to show them some of the finer points in target and hunter shooting positions and methods.

[BabaOriley]

This is a case of not what's "needed", but of "wanted", and as this is still a free country, do as you will.

Yeah, like I said, I had read several places that nobody feels the need for a brake on a .204, especially with a heavy barrel. As many internet opinions don't come from experience, I figured if it can't hurt, I may as well try it. Now I'm hoping it's effect doesn't cause an already muzzle heavy design feel even heavier. It's also one more thing to clean, but Mike says it doesn't catch much.

I hadn't found this forum at the time I ordered, but I trust many of the opinions here. Thanks

[sniper model 12]

I started with factory Savage mod 12 rifle. 8.5 lbs

Added 4.5 lbs of bar weights = 13 lbs (added to butt stock)
-this reduced recoil by over 50%

And for the Forum Challenge, I added an undetermined amount of weight in addition to the bar weight. Added #6 lead shot. Recoil was eliminated another 49%.



I then prone shot at a sighter target with bipod and gym sock sandbags. Some of the best groupings I've ever had. My 3 yr old boy then shot a couple of times when he couldn't before due to the amount of recoil. The lead shot was a gift to me, the gym sock sandbags were a gift to me, and I saved $100 plus installation fees for a recoil compensator. My buddy with the AR flipped.

[sniper model 12]

Not to get off topic, but Bunny Buster made and interesting point.

The bullet is supersonic, so there will always be a crack as it move through the air.

A similar conversation starter would be in regards to the amount of assistance an acoustic suppressor would offer. (maybe we should start a new thread and invite some of the "over the pond" buddies to share info.

Sorry, don't want to stir the pot, but I do find these modifications interesting and assumably others do to. These tools have their place and one must decide whether that place is on your furbag tagger or paper puncher.

[jo191145]

At the egg shoots I attend there are two guys (friends)who put muzzle brakes on everything they shoot.
While they're not outlawed in the rules in this particular shoot I can tell you no one wants to be on a bench anywhere near them.

I sat next to a 300 Win Mag with a brake. The blast from that thing would blow my rifle almost out of the rest. Pretty hard to compete when your waiting for the earth to move.
If you shoot in a public range or competition you sure will not be making any friends unless they're all Rambo types.

A 20 tactical with a brake is pretty darn loud.

An AR-15 shouldn't kick much with or without a muzzle brake. They used to shoot them off thier chins in training if I remember correctly.
When I was young and stupid I used to touch off both barrels of gramps 12 guage double with one hand to impress my buddies.
Sure suffered some bloody hammer/trigger bites though.

Concentration overcomes recoil in most standard calibers. If you do not fear it you can learn to live with it.
Some folks even claim to enjoy it.

You want one by all means screw it on.