204 vs cougar

[GlennGTR]

Has anyone here seen results of the 204 on cougar.Its seems to have alot of energy even enough at 2oo yards.Id only take an ideal shot meaning broadside and most shots here would be under 100 yards.I watched my dad kill one years ago with his 221fireball at about 80 yards.Surely the 204 has more energy and penitration than that 221.

[Glen]

Personally I would stay away from the V-Max & use the 40gr Bergers around 3800fps.

JMTCW

[Ryan S Albright]

A male cougar could weigh as much as 235lbs. Would you use a 204 on anything that heavy! Maybe if that was all you had in your hands at the time. I've heard that cougars are not that tough when it comes to being shot. I know of trapper who used a 32 cal auto pistol to kill cougars in traps. If you are going to hunt cougars why not use a rifle with a little more caliber to it. The varmint caliber rifles put a very fast rpm spin on there bullets to cause them to fly apart or make them more fragile. A big game rifle puts a slower RPM on its bullets. I am sure you could take one with a 204 but I don't think there is really a proper bullet made for that type of hunting with the 204. You wouldn't want a cougar running off with a flash wound on him.

[Bayou City Boy]

For years the preferred side arm for use when hunting cougars with dogs (where its still legal) has been/is a 22 magnum pistol.

-BCB

[Ahab]

For years the preferred side arm for use when hunting cougars with dogs (where its still legal) has been/is a 22 magnum pistol.

-BCB

You must have some small cats in Texas. We can use dogs in Arizona and I don't know of anyone using a .22 of any persuasion in bringing them down. Most here are more concerned about the welfare of their dogs and want to put the cat down quickly.

[Rick in Oregon]

The 22WMR is used here for cats too, albeit when we could use hounds to hunt them. The WMR was used on treed cats at fairly close range with perfect success, as its bullets have very good penetration and don't tear up hides much.

No hounds allowed now, the bleeding heart liberals of our Portland metro area voted to ban the practice (even though the balance of the entire state voted against the ban). Result? Now we're infested with cougar and this has resulted less deer fawns, less elk calves, ranchers losing cattle and sheep, even pets and small kids have been taken. Not to stray off topic too much, but this is an issue that should have been Fish & Fur's domain, NOT a bunch of liberal city dwellers who have never seen a sagebrush, let alone animals in the wild.

The 22WMR works perfectly on cats as long as the shot is placed properly. The 204? Sure, as soon as I can get a buddy to forward a huge tom alongside his 204, I'll post it here. Again and as always, bullet choice and placement is the key.

[Bayou City Boy]

Could mountain lions have possibly mutated in the past 25 yrs or so and now you can no longer expect to kill one with a 22 magnum...?

It's been awhile back, but whenever I saw a 22 mag used on treed cats, the cat was dead when he hit the ground. I never saw a single instance where a dog got chewed on after the 22 mag went off. Maybe it doesn't work that way anymore.....?

And it wasn't in Texas.....

JMO - BCB

[glenn asher]

Eureka! SOMETHING the new .327 revolver cartridge could be useful for! Cougar!

[sniper model 12]

The way that I look at it. . . if I'm hunting an animal (where legal) to use rimfire ammo, and said ammo is effective at the average range that I intend to encounter the animal, then why not use said ammo.

Check the ballistics of your calibers .22, .22 mag, .204. . . . . .338 lapua and research the critter you intend on hunting. . . . . find a match. Get the best gun for your budget and be safe.

I've shot raccoons with a variety of .204 sizes and manufactures before I found the golden round that would dispatch with one shot from long distance and little hide damage. Coons are very tough critters and in the process I had some TRY to run away. Until I found a 34 gr Winchester JHP (or precision expansion point to most) that would penetrate the hide effectively and EXPLODE internally allowing me to retrieve my lunch and my dog's play toy hide.

Again, it all comes down to bullet choice and shot placement! Use what you have that is legal and effective. To each his own. My opinion.

[Bad Dad]

I feel that we should do all we can to make sure that the animals we hunt do not suffer, and die quickly. I feel this is our responsibility and should not be taken lightly. I’m sure we have all seen the anti-hunting films of the “Evil Hunter” shooting a bear or buffalo 7 or 8 times while the animal struggles to get away.

On top of that you have a creature that can cross 100 yards faster than you can work your bolt and ones there has all the necessary tools and training to dispatch you quickly and cleanly.

I think that using a 204 on something like a mountain lion in a bad idea in more ways than one. Sure with proper shot placement and the right bullet it will do the trick, but we live in the real world. And unless you have the disciple to pass up the questionable shots on an animal that is very hard to hunt, then you should not consider the 204.

Now I’ve never hunted with dogs so this may be a whole different bowl of wax. And if you have the lion treed and all you have to do is find a clear shoot at 50 yards, then maybe the 204 with either the 45gr Hornady or better yet the Berger 50gr would be an adequate cartridge. Just my 2 cents worth and it’s not even worth that.

[Ahab]

Has anyone here seen results of the 204 on cougar.Its seems to have alot of energy even enough at 2oo yards.Id only take an ideal shot meaning broadside and most shots here would be under 100 yards.I watched my dad kill one years ago with his 221fireball at about 80 yards.Surely the 204 has more energy and penitration than that 221.

Obviously no one here has shot cougar with a .204. The closest I can come is a 48# coyote I called in at just over 70 yards. The hit was just above the left shoulder and she went down as if hit by lightning. The bullet was a 39gr Sierra. As I stumbled over she suddenly got up on her front legs and started howling. The shot appeared to have exploded on the skin surface and pieces of the bullet angled upward severing the spine. That was the first time out with the .204, I normally use a .243 and never had to shoot twice. Now if that was a 250# Lion in a tree there could very well be some dead or dying dogs down below. That's why I said using a .22Mag side arm is nonsense. I've owned several and never was able to get less than a 12" group at 50 yards as they are just plain inaccurate. I don't doubt that some have killed with it. That doesn't make it right. Here the lion is hunted on horseback using dogs. The sidearms used are the .357Mag, .44Mag and the .45ACP or long Colt. Very often a 30-30 Saddle carbine is the tool.

[sniper model 12]

My secondary firearm when I coyote hunt is a .45 ACP Stainless Springfield Armory 1911A1. When the furry little buggers sneak in behind me. . . .

I've never hunted cougar. I do believe in ethical hunting with the appropriate weapon. But, I've also shot squirrel with a 20ga #6 shot at close range and the tree rat still be alive enough to climb back up the tree. I then tried the .204 on the same squirrel . . . . I ended up with a tail. At least he's not suffering anymore.

Creekwalkr shot a "stray" dog with his 204 and after some howls and whines it ran off. But last I heard from him (he lives in the same county as I do) it never came back to eat the chickens or chase the cattle.

The toughest critter I've ever hunted has been the raccoon. 40 or 45 grainers fixed that! awesome rounds. they really do the work.

my worthless sense.

[Varmonter]

Man why does it always come to this...I saw a video of a guy who downed an elephant
with a crossbow. So why not a 204??
This thread needs to die..

[Rick in Oregon]

Ahab:
Varmonter is probably right, but I must offer that just because you had no luck with an accurate 22WMR (12" groups at 50 yards), does not mean that the caliber is inaccurate, nor does it mean that the 22WMR is not suitable for cats under the right circumstances (treed).

I'm not advocating actually hunting cats with the 22WMR, far from it. There are much better suited calibers for that task, but I've seen treed cats easily dispatched with a good 22 Mag with one shot. This is not to say I'd take a shot at one on the ground at 50 yards, but a treed cat is an entirely different story.

As for the caliber being inaccurate, you may want to mention that to the hundreds of dead ground squirrels and rock chucks that have been dispatched with one of my 22WMR's shown below. I've taken Skippy and his pals in excess of 150 yards with that Smith Model 648 6" 22WMR and CCI Maxi-Mag +V ammuntion from a sandbag rest. And many more with my Ruger 77/22 Mag past 200 yards that I own. The caliber may not equal the accuracy of a good 17 HMR, but I've never had one that sprayed bullets into 12" at 50 yards either. Even my S&W Model 651 4" 22WMR Kit Gun does much better than that.

S&W Model 648 6" 22WMR w/Leupold 4X Handgun Scope:



You may want to re-evaluate your opinion of the 22WMR with a good specimin.

[Bayou City Boy]

Like Rick, I've also seen treed cats easily taken with a 22 magnum.

And the three old guys who used to do it regularly knew what they were doing and took care of their hounds and had them leashed and the situation well in hand before any shots were fired at a treed cat from any kind of rifle/cartridge ..."just in case"..... But in all the times I went hunting with them when I was a young man in Jr. High and High School, I never saw a "just in case" occur. And I know for a fact that none of the three hunters I mentioned ever had any "just in case" situations occur. Yet they regularly used 22 magnums. A mountain lion is not a heavy skinned/bodied animal.

And like Rick, if I was to go lion hunting today, I would probably take something larger than a 22 Magnum, but it wouldn't be something capable of dispatching large carnivores bent on eating me like I might find in Alaska........ It would likely be a revolver in either 45 Colt or 44 Magnum.

As for the accuracy of the 22 magnum, I've owned a couple over the years in both rifles and revolvers and mine have all performed a lot like Rick's and have been far from "12 inches at 50 yards".... Most folks can do better with a sling shot than that....

Just my experience.... -BCB