SmallCaliberCentral

I would think that a polymer tipped bullet would be more aerodynamic than a small hollow point. But when I look at the tips under magnification, sometimes the polymers are deformed or have flat spots on the tips, and are just not as symetrical as some of the small hollow points that appear to have a more pristine tip section. Just wondering what most reloaders have found? Thanks.

Easy enough.
Look at short range Benchrest. No ones shooting nylon tipped bullets.
IMO its not so much the fact of aerodynamics as it is of overall bullet quality.
Nylon tipped bullets are generally mass produced pills. Jacket/core uniformity is not as meticulously controlled as a good J4 jacket custom bullet.
Its that uniformity that creates accuracy potential. Not so much the tip or BC.
Ask any short range Bencher what the BC of thier pill is and I'd quess most don't know or care.

Long range is different. BC accounts for much of the accuracy.
Not being a long ranger off the top of my head I can only think of one projectile being used at LR with a nylon tip. The Amax series.
Has it set the LR game on fire? Not that I've heard.

And then we could ponder all the variables of what happens to the imperfect nylon tips as the race down the barrel and towards the target.
Quite a few years ago I lost quite a few 39bk tips in midflight. Might never know exactly why but I have a theory or two.
Always wanted the 39BC in 300yd competition but I never once used it.
Give me the best consistent accuracy possible and I'll worry about the wind later. JMO

How do you know you lost the tips in mid flight? Have you a super high speed camera set up? I would love to see some of the still shots showing them being lost in mid flight. They would make for interesting conversation. Bill K

TPCollins. Another thing to consider. I may stand corrected on this, but all of Berger's VLD bullets, used for extended range, are very small HP's. And some of the other bullet people have match or target bullets that are basically the same makeup. Bill K

Bill K wrote:How do you know you lost the tips in mid flight? Have you a super high speed camera set up? I would love to see some of the still shots showing them being lost in mid flight. They would make for interesting conversation. Bill K

Because I found a two implanted in the forward face of my 200yd plywood target backer. Perfect condition with the root still attached.
Always coincided with a huge flyer and two holes appearing in my target. One bullethole and a keyholed tip.
Just a quess but I'd bet the even larger flyers lost thier tips also just earlier than the two I was lucky to retrieve.

That makes somewhat better sense to me, rather than lost in mid flight. At least it did make it to the target, just came apart there on impact, which is what is is supposed to do. The tips cause the bullet to open/mushroom for terminal shock, etc. Personally I shoot quit a few BS/tipped bullets and have never found one in tact, so far anyway. They do the job for me, I guess I want. Hit the target/paper and/or varmint and do thier job as required. But I admit I shoot both hp/s and tipped styles of bullets. Bill K

If you shoot one projectile at a target and it makes two seperate holes thats obviously coming apart in midflight.

i hope that explains the fliers. or the reason i once in a while get fliers. saw crt has some j4s. want to try those some time.

I really don't think it makes much difference. I get better groups Berger 155.5 and Sierra 155 MK's better than the Hornady AMax in .308, yet my best 100 yard groups ever are with the 204 and Sierra 39's which are polymer tipped. My .223 does not seem to care what I put in it as long as it is of a decent quality. It shoots HP's or poly tips, does not care if they are high end Bergers or bulk bullets.

This HP vs BT question crossed my mind a few times when I found that a lot of the poly tips were actually loose. A lot were not concentric - no gauge, but visibly way off centre. Whether they straighten out under force I don't know, but the uniformity of the HPs certainly give me more confidence. Better go load some

204cat wrote:i hope that explains the fliers. or the reason i once in a while get fliers. saw crt has some j4s. want to try those some time.

Many of the better bullets use the J4 jackets, i.e. Berger. Some say it holds up better and makes for better groove/land bite. Bill K

jo191145 wrote:If you shoot one projectile at a target and it makes two seperate holes thats obviously coming apart in midflight.

Sounds probable, but let me ask this then. If the tip separates and continues onto the 200 yard target, with what velocity would it hold ? Or could it possible increase ? Since it is of a weight, way less than the main portion of the bullet, it would seem to me that it would loose velocity faster and hit at a slower rate, what do you believe ? I would think, that since is was intact and keyholed, as you say, then it had to have slow a pretty good amount. Many interesting guestions come into my old mind. What do some of you fellows, that have shot for many years think ? Bill K

It was always a matter of shoot and see for me... But a bench-shooter survey sure seems like a good 1st step in fact finding. Its hard to get past superstition though, IMHO. Remember the "hello kitty" post?

Bill K wrote:

jo191145 wrote:If you shoot one projectile at a target and it makes two seperate holes thats obviously coming apart in midflight.

Sounds probable, but let me ask this then. If the tip separates and continues onto the 200 yard target, with what velocity would it hold ? Or could it possible increase ? Since it is of a weight, way less than the main portion of the bullet, it would seem to me that it would loose velocity faster and hit at a slower rate, what do you believe ? I would think, that since is was intact and keyholed, as you say, then it had to have slow a pretty good amount. Many interesting guestions come into my old mind. What do some of you fellows, that have shot for many years think ? Bill K

Bill
Fairly easy to surmise the two tips I DID find jettisoned shortly before impact. Cuz Yes, A nylon tip is'nt going far without the mass of the bullet to carry it and certainly not with any degree of accuracy to hit paper.
I'm certain I lost others but to far forward of the target for proof. When I said huge flyers I meant HUGE. The bulk of the bullets were settling under a quarter at 200 maybe a nickel. The flyers were 4-6-8-12 inches and some never found paper.

I quess I should state its NOT my belief this is a common occurence with nylon tips. I've used the same lot of 39's in a different barrel a couple years later with no problems whatsoever. Not the pinpoint accuracy I require but all worked as intended.
I also used hornady and Nosler in the offending barrel with no mishaps. And that offending barrel was one of my Savage hummers that brought me home quite a few plastic trophies for killing eggs using Bergers.

What I believe was happening for whatever reason (carbon in the throat seems most plausible) was the lead core was pushing forward in the jacket. They're not bonded ya know This would have to be occuring in the bore. Simply put the lead core (mass) was trying to overtake the jacket (light and under friction) in the barrel. If this is true the ogive shape of the core would force the ogive of the jacket to expand opening the hole the nylon tip fits in.
Ummm I pretty much came to this conclusion because in testing with two pairs of plyers I could NOT rip one of those tips out of a bullet in one piece. The root always stayed in the jacket. Seeing as the two I found had the roots intact, and the bullets did impact the target without keyholing I can't fathom a different scenario than the hole opening up. If the entire core/jacket seperated I would have found evidence of that before ever finding a stray tip.
Of course I cleaned the barrel several times and eventually tried WS2 in an attempt to stop this phenomonon. It persisted in that barrel.

If I was a varmint shooter I'd want the fragile varmint bullets. I did use 58gn V-Max for a year in a 6BR for killing eggs. Extremely pleaseing THWACK upon impact and they simply disappear instead of splatting. Same gun shoots 68 Barts Ultras or even Bergers a little more precise tho. I went with precise.
Itchin to see what a 95gn V-Max will do in the 6.5X284 I'm toying with now.

The 105 A-max once held both the 600 and 1000 yd bench rest records. I think the 1000 yd record remains.