Sonic Cleaner vgs Tumbler

[madpaddler]

Has anyone compared the Lyman Sonic Cleaner to a Tumbler to clean your brass? If so, what can you tell me about the difference?

Bill

[DoubleUp]

I have a sonic cleaner, but I seldom use it. I've been using the Thumbler's tumbler with stainless steel media for about a year and a half. As far as cleaning inside and outside along with primer pockets it is superior to anything else in my opinion. Not only does the brass come out clean, but it is highly polished and looks better than new. It is fairly expensive to get setup if you don't have the tumbler for liquid cleaning. A Thumbler's is going to run about $175, and the media (5 lbs of stainless) will run $35-$50, but it never has to be replaced and the only other consumeables are liquid dish soap (Ivory or Dawn work good) and Lemishine (a citrus based cleaner availabe at Walmart).

[RAMOS]

From what I have read the concensus on sonic cleaners is that they work, as in fine, okay, etcetera. I think the advantage is if you can make use of it cleaning other items that you are cleaning on a regular basis. The only example I can offer is pretty Off Topic here. I made a full time living for nine years (quit 22 years ago) in the dive industry. Breathing regulators were required to be tore down every year. The materials were usually chrome plated brass and stainless steel. Industry SOP was to soak components for 24 hrs in white vinegar then rinse in fresh water, scour, dry and, determine if pitting was within acceptible limits. No big deal, it was only your life on the line! Now, those same parts go in to a non-acidic ultra sound cleaner and, get pulled out after 4 hrs, rinse, dry, inspect and reassembled. Back on topic, it seems,from what I have read (as in NO actual experience) that the primer pockets may or may not be super clean. What excites me about the SS media is that it sounds like EVERY part of the case comes out spotless (again, no first hand experience). As far as cost to get started, I have been using a rotary tumbler for a few years now. My suggestion is to get on Craigslist and search rock tumblers/rock polishers. As soon as you search for a rotary "reloading" tumbler, the offerings drop way off and the price goes way up. I picked up an old school DeLorme rock tumbler with two different sized octogon cans and external motor on a stand. He wanted $75.00 and I traded $50.00 worth of stuff that was not worth anything to me. I ended up with a tumbler that will outlast me. Great deal, even if I would have given him cash. I NEVER get good deals, if can, anyone can!!! I have not plunked down the money yet for SS media, but I will. Still using walnut but tired of wiping dust and poking flash holes. The other advantage of the rotary tumbler is that is does not sound like a sex toy on steroids! I know I did not directly answer your question but, hope the information gives you food for thought and, others will answer you more directly with more pertinent information. For me, I'm confident that I want to give the SS media a try and, not really interested in a sonic cleaner.

[Lead Lobber]

I have a 15 gallon Ultrasonic cleaner made by Sonic Systems Inc. It was designed for cleaning M16 barrels in 15 minutes for the Marines. It is a very expensive unit..... When I can keep it working(I am about to send it back for the second time) it does an outstanding job of cleaning, just not polishing. The insides of cases are just as clean on the inside as they are on the outside. It usually gets 85-90% of the primer pocket carbon removed depending on the primer used.

After drying I usually drop them in my 18 lb Thumblers Tumbler with walnut shell to polish them out before I prime and load.

I like both....I use both....it all depends on what you want as your final product.

[Trent]

I started using sonic cleaner for my .204 brass mostly because of the small neck on the cases. The walnut media does not move into the cases very freely and then once it is in there it gets so packed that the media does a poor job of cleaning the inside of the case. The first time I put 50 of my .204 cases in my ultrasonic cleaner and turned it on I was amazed at the cloud of blackness that came out of the cases when I turned it on. I was equally happy after running it for about 10-12 minutes. The insides of the cases were very clean and the primer pockets as well.

I bought mine from Harbor Freight for $65.00 after using a 20% off coupon. Money well spent. I've also used it to clean gun parts, and the wife's wedding ring. She was happy to see it sparkle like new again.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

+1 for the Thumler/stainless.

[MT204]

+2 for the stainless.

[Wrangler John]

There is no advantage to sonic cleaning whatever. It's too slow and inefficient. My sonic cleaner has an African violet planted in it now - great for houseplants.

There is no need to remove the internal microscopic layer of carbon, nor will it have any salubrious effect on the brass if you do. Conversely, it won't hurt either, see comment below.

There is no need to subject brass to shot peening with stainless steel rods or balls in a liquid solution. It's a waste of time.

The only difference between tumbling in corncob media and sonic or wet tumbling is that extra time and effort is required to dry the cases. Vibratory tumbling in corncob media with a bit of polish added is sufficient to remove case lube and prepare the cases for immediate loading. Dirty brass can be tumbled before and after sizing. That is all.

[Trent]

WJ, we all have varying levels of wants and needs in brass prep. A lot of us put in a lot of time preparing brass before ever firing a shot. All I can say is that with my .204R brass there is a VAST difference between the performance of a vibratory cleaner and my ultra sonic cleaner. Also, the time that it takes for the brass to dry is about equal to the time it takes me to clear the walnut media out of all the flash holes.

The great thing about todays world is that we all have so many choices that we can make.

[Lead Lobber]

There are alot of degrees of quality as well. If you have some Chinese Harbor Freight unit compared to my $5000 Sonic System unit there will be a drastic difference in performance.

Efficency and performance is key for me. I can clean 500-1000 rounds an hour with mine depending on the caliber. Plus I don't have to do a darn thing.....throw them in, turn it on, and go do something else for 15 minutes.

I do not think an ultrasonic is a waste of time.....the results are very good for the amount of effort involved. It sure beats the heck out of brushing every primer pocket.

It also does a great job of cleaning dies, barrels, nuts, bolts, pistons, carbs, diesel injectors, jewlery, and about anything you can fit in it.

[Wrangler John]

Well, that's all real good and dandy, and I do like choices. Thing is, it will be difficult to prove any objective improvement in accuracy or longevity from sonic cleaning or wet tumbling of cases. Why some competitive shooters don't even bother to clean primer pockets! Egad!

Today at the range, I had a benchrest shooter explain "bolt click" to me. Seems Remington actions are subject to this phenomena, where after several firings of a case, opening the bolt causes a little pause and "click" sound before the bolt cam extracts the case. He whipped out a eye loop and showed me a little bright line above the case head, and described how he removed this little high spot using a case spinner and abrasive cloth. Sorta looks like incipient head separation, says I. Well not quite the same thing, he says. What's the point I asked? Well, he replied, to make the case last longer. He had fired the same case 16 times and now it was causing the dreaded bolt click. Very interesting I thought, but wondered what a new bag of click-less brass would cost.

Sometimes we fret over the dangest things. Indeed, I once labored over brass, especially those wildcats where a case had to be formed down, trimmed, neck reamed, full length sized and fireformed, annealed, then loaded for real. Then I woke up one day and asked, why? So, now I just do the minimum that makes me feel like I swallowed a teddy bear, kinda warm and fuzzy inside. My needs are dictated by two things, practical effect and the psychology of preconceived notions. I believe that primer pocket uniforming and flash hole deburring will make my .204 Rugers shoot astoundingly small groups, it is an axiom, a natural law. So I do it. Even after I ran a batch without all that folderol and it shot the same, I couldn't give it up. I felt more confident in the uniformed brass - a psychological effect. In the two posts above we are discussing our needs, and efficiency of the tumbler vs. the ultra sonic cleaner, and the quality of the $5000 ultra sonic cleaner vs. the Harbor Freight model. Nowhere is there a discussion of the degree of improvement in accuracy or case life between processed vs. unprocessed brass. So my point is that these processes are rituals of custom and psychology rather than metallurgical or ballistic necessity. We do these things out of belief and desire, but still, it's a healthy pursuit and fun hobby.

[Lead Lobber]

He just wanted to know how they compared......geeezzzz...... I bet he didn't expect this.

[Hedge]

Wrangler -

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Sounds like you and I have been down the same road. I've settled on a few procedures that give me the warm fuzzies. There are times, however, when something comes along with the promise of more fuzzies. So, I'm off on a new tack.

Lobber -

To misquote that famous philosopher:

"Forums are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to find. "

[Lead Lobber]

I don't clean my brass to cut my groups, I clean my brass because I want it clean.

Why wash a car??? It doesn't make it drive any better or go faster.....

[Trent]

I will say that I only clean my .204 brass in the ultra sonic cleaner. All my other larger calibers go throu the tumbler with walnut shell media. I do this because the neck size on the .204 and small case size makes it difficult for the media to get in there and move around, and it makes it a pain in the butt to get the media out.

Carbon will ABSOLUTELY build up on the case walls if not removed after each firing. I inherited some brass from a friend that never cleaned it and I could rap it on the bench top and very big and thick layers of carbon would flake off and come out in big chunks. If you don't think that will play with group size you are kidding yourself. Just stating my opinion and not directed at anyone in particular. Just an example of my findings. I prefer my brass to be consistently clean.