The 4000FPS barrier Ruger 204

[WAYNE12345]

I bought this Ruger 204 Jan 0f 2010 and since have yet to break the 4000FPS barrier!!!! the main selling point was it would beat the 223s I currently have. I am again this year goint to tackle the quest for speed. The loads that I have been running throught my MK-77 24" barrel are, 32gr. V-Max with (let me mention that I started out at 28.6gr win-748) then went all the way to the max load of 29.6gr win-748 without breaking the 4000FPS on my conograph with this 29.6gr load I got 2 9shot groups avg 3909&3903 respecfully...So I went upon the net last night and on this forum checked out the .204 load data and found two other powders that I stock and are going to try them... MY REQUEST IS. IS their anyone out there been able the get the 4100FPS that the Hornady Book 7th ED. list for the 32gr V-Max w/win-748 29.6gr. I also use the Hornady bullet comparator, and took a freebore measurement of this MK-77 and got a reading of 1.900" OGIVE measurment so I seat all the 32gr V-Max at 1.880" for a 0.010" jump which works well I get 5 shot groups under a dime at 100yrds consistantly...But can still not figure out why I cat get the 4000+FPS??? ANY Input appriciated... Thanks

[DoubleUp]

You should be able to get there with IMR 8208 XBR fairly easily. I shoot a Savage model 16 with 22" barrel and can reach over 4,000 fps with H322 and H335 as well. However, I don't have any loads that I try to shoot for accuracy at those speeds. In my rifle, the 32 v-max does best with those powders in the 3,900-4,000 range. I usually find the best node at about 3,925 to 3,950. I am shooting at sea level.

Hornady factory 32's shoot right at 4,000 fps in this rifle as a comparison. With 29.6g of W748, I average just about 3,985, but get better accurcacy at 29g which gives me 3,900 fps and .5 moa. I can drop that down to 28g and get about 3,800 fps with .3 moa accuracy in 748. Remember a fast miss isn't worth much.

[Rick in Oregon]

I'm getting right at 4,065 fps and 4,110 fps using a max charge of RL-10X and both the Sierra 32gr BK and the Nosler 32gr BT out of my Sako and Cooper 204's.

But I'd much rather have stellar accuracy at 3,800 - 3,900 fps than so-so groups at 4,000+ fps any day. Like Doubleup sez, "a fast miss isn't worth much"...... Accuracy is what matters, speed is secondary.....at least IMHO. Time to try another powder? If you can't get the speed you're after with W748, seems like the logical thing to do at this point......

Even with a 22 incher, you should be able to get to 4,000+ fps with a powder better suited to the task.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Wayne, at this point, I'd be curious to know a little more about your chrono; brand, age, etc., what other cartridges you're shooting over it and what results you're getting. There's not an easy way for Joe Sixpack to tell how accurate his chrono is but one rough gauge would be to run a few 32-gr Hornady factory loads across it. If they're all showing 3900 fps, you've got part of your answer right there.

The reason I bring it up is I checked your load in QuickLoad internal ballistics software, and it predicts 4124 fps from 29.6-gr of W748. Granted, QuickLoad needs some tweaking to match your components' particulars to get best accuracy but there's more than 10,000 psi difference between 4124 fps and 3900. But 29.6 grains definitely is a compressed load, and I'm hard pressed to believe you're 10,000 psi off max pressure with that much W748.

Another way to test is to compare bullet drop at different ranges. That's a bit of a problem because the .204 shoots so flat but if you have a 100-yard zero, just confirm zero, then shoot a 3-shot group at some greater distance, at least 300 yards, using the same point of aim. IOW, aim for the 'X' at 300 (or more). Determine the center of that group, then measure the vertical distance from there to the 'X'. There should be 1.1" difference in the drop of a 3900 fps bullet @300 yards versus 4125 fps, and 2.6" @400, so the greater the range, the better. Provided we've got accurate measurements and an accurate BC on the bullet, it shouldn't be any problem to get within, say, 50 fps of the actual MV.

[WAYNE12345]

Inreply to Mr. Dodds input thanks for the screening the chronograph is a littel over two years old it is a ProChrono and I was thinking it was doing a good job is their any problem with this chrono??? maybe thats the hole thing that I'm getting bad dope from the chrono???

[Silverfox]

WAYNE12345--When I first started to work up loads for my Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger back in June of 2004, I was on a quest for speed like you are when you wrote.

have yet to break the 4000FPS barrier!!!! the main selling point was it would beat the 223s I currently have. I am again this year going to tackle the quest for speed.

Remember, I was young and foolish when I first started to reload for the .204 Ruger and I don’t suggest you try any of the loads I list below. The 32 gr. Hornady factory loads were giving me an average muzzle velocity of 4,200 fps. I could not find any reload data for any of the bullets or powder available at that time so I took my best guess and went from there. I worked loads up with WW748, BL-C(2), Reloder 10X , Varget, and H4895.

A load of 29.9 gr. of WW748 using Hornady brass and Remington 7½ primers with the 32 gr. V-Max bullet gave me a velocity of 4,036 fps at 11 feet 3 inches from the muzzle. A load of 30.7 gr. of BL-C(2) gave me 4,069 fps at 11 feet 3 inches from the muzzle. Since I was possessed by the speed demon, I had to get to that 4,200+ fps speed that Ruger and Hornady were touting. I broke the barrier with WW 748 loads shooting one of each weighing 30.0 gr., 30.5 gr., 31.0 gr., and 31.5 gr. Velocities at 12 feet 4 inches from the muzzle were 4,250 fps, 4,315 fps, 4,397 fps, and 4,400 fps respectively. The primer pockets of those four casings were so loose after those shots that I could seat a primer with just finger pressure!!!

I also tried the following loads with BL-C(2) using CCI BR-4 primers: 30.0 gr., 30.5 gr., 30.7 gr., and 31.0 gr. Velocities at 12 feet 4 inches from the muzzle were 4,044 fps, 4,119 fps, 4,215 fps, and 4,345 fps respectively. Primer pockets were still tight. Interestingly, a load of 31.0 gr. of BL-C(2) using a Remington 7½ primer yielded 4,255 fps—a full 90 fps slower than achieved with the CCI BR-4 primer.

Please remember, I DID NOT have any reloading data and was flying by the seat of my pants with these loads. I was lucky I didn’t lose fingers, eyesight, etc. with many of the loads I tried when I was pushing for speed!! I did blow a primer with one of my hot loads and felt some debris hit my face. Fortunately, I wear glasses and the debris did not cause any damage to my face. I also exceeded 4,250 fps with a hot load of H4895. I was able to break the 4,250 fps barrier with a very hot load of Reloder 10X too.

I had a favorite load of H4895 pushing the 32 gr. V-Max that consistently gave me 4,250+ fps, but when factory reloading data came out, I found that this load was over the maximum listed load too. I have since decided that my loads will be worked up for accuracy, NOT maximum speed.

One thing I think you are forgetting in your quest to match the .223s is the fact that the BC of most of the bullets you will be shooting from the .204 Ruger are higher than like weight bullets from your .223s. The higher BCs will work to your advantage on wind deflection and drop and screaming velocity isn't always the answer to hitting your intended target.

The gentlemen who have posted replies have good advice, especially the advise given by Doubleup and Rick in Oregon--

"A fast miss isn't worth much" and "But I'd much rather have stellar accuracy at 3,800 - 3,900 fps than so-so groups at 4,000+ fps any day."

Those two fellows approach reloading with the right thought in mind.

[Neil S.]

I shoot a savage with 26" barrel. I just worked some loads up using RL-10x, rem 7 1/2 primers and 32 BKs. At 26.2 gr my average velocity was just over 4230 fps. This is 1/10th UNDER max and I was very impressed. It produced a group of about 0.8" (notes not in front of me) while groups that were more in the 4100 fps range produced around .5" groups so I will be doing more testing around that speed. IMO that is screaming fast and I am more than happy at that speed.

[dozernomore]

But I'd much rather have stellar accuracy at 3,800 - 3,900 fps than so-so groups at 4,000+ fps any day. Like Doubleup sez, "a fast miss isn't worth much"...... Accuracy is what matters, speed is secondary.....at least IMHO. Time to try another powder? If you can't get the speed you're after with W748, seems like the logical thing to do at this point......

Even with a 22 incher, you should be able to get to 4,000+ fps with a powder better suited to the task.

X2

[WAYNE12345]

In reply to silverfox.s entry, I am awear of the speed issue that speed does not mean accuracy... But My piont I was trying to bring out that most of you missed was that Hornady 7th edition reloading manual has published data that list a 32gr. V-Max with 29.6gr of w-748 will do 4100FPS and Iam saying that it is not an accurate data because I have loaded it and as I stated in my original post all I was able to get was in the 3900FPS area.... My challenge is to you guys is as I originaly wanted to know will someone take that data with the exact weapon Ruger MK-77 24" barrel fire that data and tell me if they are getting the 4100FPS, or not.....

[Rick in Oregon]

Wayne: Just keep in mind that all manual data from the bullet manufacturers is usually worked up in pressure barrels mounted to universal receivers in their own ballistics lab. Results in our own rifles of different makes out in the environment seldom accurately reflect the same velocities. Exact duplication of the loads in manuals may or may not result in the velocities listed. The manuals are really a "guideline", and not etched in stone.

If you really want to pass the 4K fps barrier, just work with some different powders and/or bullets......you'll get there. Although along the way you may discover a very nice accurate load that is shy of 4K.....I'd use it and be happy. Velocity is good, but accuracy really matters.

[dozernomore]

hornady 7thy edition states they used a Ruger M77,26'',1-12 twist barrel,hornady cases, rem 7/2primer.
how long is your barrel??you say it's 24'' and I say you are gonna loose some muzzle velocity there,I'm thinking 100fps less then the hornady manuals muzzle velocity out of a 26'' barrel

[glenn asher]

Quick question, how fast is Hornady 32gr. FACTORY ammo going in your rifle? If you can duplicate that speed, you are doing about as well as you can expect, SAFELY. I've got a nominally 22" barrel in a CZ American that only does 3950fps with factory Hornady ammo, and my very accurate ammo does about the same.

But, as has been said before, faster ain't better if you cain't hit nuthin'.

Hit something first, and don't be hung up on "factory specs" because they vary between rifles by a substantial margin. A 32gr. bullet @ 3900plus or minus will still kill a coyote without any dramas, BTDT.