SmallCaliberCentral

Hi All.

Firstly, great forum - amazing amount of information posted.

I want to get into hand loading my .204. However I am curious about the trade off regarding loading for accuracy vs. velocity.

With regard to the factory Federal load containg the Sierra 39grn pill - it is suggest that for a scope mounted 1.5" above the bore line you should be hitting +0.8" at 100yds for a 200yd zero.

If I were to hand load for the same pill, how would trajectory be affected? Some hand loads shoot significantly slower do they not? Especially if you are aiming for sub 0.5" @100yds. Is this correct?

Considering that I live in a remotely populated area - my shooting ranges can often extend beyond 400yds.

Having purchased the .204 for it's flat trajectory and accuracy, is there a trade off in the .204's laser like trajectory vs. accuracy when hand loading?

And how do you test this? Is it just a matter of stepping out your targes, to 100, 200, 300 and 400 to measure the drop?

Any and all info to set me on the straight and narrow would be appreciated.

Griff.

The info you have sounds right.That Federal load shot .333 from my ,out of the box, Savage LRPV.Max,or near max loads produce both,accuracy,and high velocity.Just work up your loads with whatever powder you choose.I use a 2.350 for the Sie 39gr BK,but all factory loads are arounf 2.250 and they still shoot great (shortened for AR mags no doubt,w/tight crimps).You can find drop tables,use a caculator,or just call Sierra Tech help,give them the muzzle velocity and they can give you , the best zero,and drop at 50yd increments out to 1000yds,if you want.Probable by email as well.Get their printed load data for the 32 and 39 BK,which is not in their latest addition of the loading manual.

I know a lot of folks get hung up on velocity, and I too have been guilty, depending on the situation, a few FPS doesn't make that big of a deal. Sure, it may shoot a little flatter and a little harder and have a slight advantage in wind resistance. For me, I look at the distance a round goes sub-sonic because at that point, accuracy degradation isn't far behind. With the release of recent powders like IMR-8208-XBR, reload velocities are creeping up to factory loaded ammo. But, in the end, one gun may shoot faster or slower than others. Also, environmental conditions come into play as well, elevation, temp, humidity, as well as the chronograph itself. In the end, I go for accuracy and if it shoots fast, great, but if it doesn't a couple hundred FPS isn't going to matter to me.

Jim

Joe O. Mate, if I can get my rifle to shoot consistent 0.5inch groups with my new scope and factory loads then I don't even think I will bother going down the hand loading road. 0.333 is pretty amazing out of the box! Can you however point me in the direction of a drop table - is it the same as what Federal post on their web page?

Geez Jim, You make me feel bad.
Theres not a powder out there I haven't been able to break factory velocity with
Accuracy of course comes first.

I've found that my most accurate loads usually show up about .4-.7gr below published max levels...The few times I've experimented with 'hot' loads, my accuracy went way down and it tends to shorten the life of my brass, so it's generally not worth the effort...

Like others, accuracy is my most important goal...I doubt that a Prairie Dog notices the difference between 3700fps and 3900fps anyway...

Thanks guys. The ballistics calculators forwarded to me in another topic were also of great help.

jo191145 wrote:Geez Jim, You make me feel bad.
Theres not a powder out there I haven't been able to break factory velocity with
Accuracy of course comes first.

Sorry about that.

So far only the 8208-XBR has done that for me. But still, I need to load test it because accuracy wins out every time with me. Until then, I have plenty of RE-15...

Jim

I go for accuracy as well. I pay no attention and frankley sorry but do not care about someone elses pet load. 99 times out of ten it will not be my pet load for my barrel. Dont get me wrong velocity is awsome. I did have a interesting load work up using 10x and 40 grain vmaxes. Typically when I found a load that hit very well it declined in accuracy as velocity increased. the 40 grain vmax did this in my ar. and grouping got poorer as velocity went up. Dont give up ! When I got 3 tenthes of a grain under max load groups tightend up. I was shocked and it is consistent. It was even a tighter group than my initial charge group. Food For Thought!

Thanks again all.

I do find this topic really interesting though.

Last weekend (after mounting my new Leupold VX-3L 6.5-20) I shot some factory ammo at 100 yards which grouped at 0.6 of an inch for 5 shots.

This to me raises an interesting point - this type of accuracy is still good for 300 yard shots - with no hold over if you have sighted in for a MPBR. But with a hand load, this might change. Drop about 200 feet per second in velocity with a hand load and you POI will differ - possibly resulting in having to hold off your target, thus starting a whole other guessing game. Especially if you don't have time to laser range you target.

So why hand load unless you can increase accuracy AND match factory velocity? From all accounts, most people are losing velocity with their hand loads.

Let me put it another way. If I can shoot a 0.6 inch group with factory ammo, how much can I really gain unless the velocity of the factory load is matched?

Griff,

Take your 0.6" load out to 200 yards and see if it still groups like that then. Some will, some won't. Just because it shoots like that @ 100 yards doesn't mean it will stay @ 0.6 MOA (1.2") @ 200 yards. For 100 yards, I'm trying to literally put them all in the same hole because the odds are, the groups are going to open up as the distance increases. If you look at ballistic tables a couple hundred fps doesn't do that much down range for you and if you're shooting on the ragged edge of the cartridges capability (and more is needed) then consider another (additional) cartridge. That is why I now have a 6mm Remington in my Varmint arsenal (17 HMR, 22 LR, 204 Ruger, 6mm Remington). If I need something after that I'll get out my 308 and if need be, my WBY. Yea, they kick a little more, well, a LOT more WRT the 300 but they sure are accurate.

In the end, accuracy, more so than velocity, is what's going to bring your target down and the only way to make your target larger is to make your groups smaller.

HTH,

Griff wrote:
Let me put it another way. If I can shoot a 0.6 inch group with factory ammo, how much can I really gain unless the velocity of the factory load is matched?

Let me ask you this, does it matter how fast your load is going, if you miss what you're shooting at? Accuracy should remain paramount, trajectory you can allow for, accuracy, not so much....... Speed ain't everything, you gotta hit what you're shooting at.

Chrono your ammo, dope that out for trajectory purposes, and run with the most accurate load. You'll be happier in the long term. Oftentimes, even though you've got a good-shooting factory load, you can beat it with a milder, less pricey handload. Price adds up in a PD patch.

My Savage .204 shoots under an inch @200 yards with factory ammo. With handloads, it shoots 1/2". Or less. If I had satisfied myself with 0.5 MoA, I never would have discovered just how accurate that rifle truly is.

And, yes, it cost me about 100 fps, from 4100 down to 4000. I'm an adherent to the theory of Optimum Barrel Time, which posits that ultimate accuracy is coupled to dwell. Since dwell is coupled to MV, and I'm shooting the same bullet as the factory load, I'm convinced that the loss of that 100 fps is what put me dead center of that 0.2 MoA accuracy node.

Do I miss the loss of that 100 fps? Not even.

If you settle for factory ammunition, you'll never know how accurate your rifle could have been. If you hone a custom load but choose to go back to factory ammo, at least you'll have made an informed decision. But if you never try handloading because few can match the factory's "claimed" MV, all you've done is take the easy way out.

Fred_C_Dobbs wrote:But if you never try handloading because few can match the factory's "claimed" MV, all you've done is take the easy way out.

Well said, sir.

So far after 40 years of loading I've never found a rifle that I could not improve on accuracy wise with hand loads. I normally purchase one or two boxes of commerical ammo for a given rifle as a base and using that brass beginning testing for improvement, it's a great game and improves ones shooting skills.