SmallCaliberCentral

Hello all,

Just thought I would find out what other people do regarding this matter. I have test loads worked up for my .204 Savage vlp. Each test load consists of 5 rounds. What I am wondering is whether any of you clean your rifle between each test load (after 5 rounds are shot), so that every new test load starts with a clean and cool barrel.

Does what I am asking make sense?

Thanks in advance!

DarkNight

Depends. Both of my 204's require a couple rounds down the tube before I would start shooting for groups.

Also depends on the ambient temp and how long you let the barrel cool.

Would also depend if I am using different powders as well. Some are dirtier than others.

if you are starting with a clean barrel. my preference is to foul the barrel first, before shooting any of my test loads. (my preference is to shoot 5 fouling shots down range. some people will shoot only 3 shots, and i have even heard of shooting only 1 fouler). the main thing is to foul the barrel before shooting test loads.
then i go ahead and shoot my test loads. my preference is not to clean between the different loads, or you will need to foul the barrel again.
i have shot my targets at times just to foul the barrel, and 1 time i had a group under .375 with my fouling load, and other times i had groups with the same load over 1 in. Point is to strive for the best consistency you can achieve, from each test load.
as I have stated, this is just the way I do my testing.
the question you are asking makes very good sense, and best of luck in your testing, and enjoy the trigger time!

If I'm testing different powders, yes, I clean between loads and then refoul with 5 shots, otherwise, no.

HTH,

I fire one (1) fouling shot thru a clean barrel, then fire a 5 shot group. I let the barrel cool for a few minutes, then fire another 5 shot group with the SAME load. I then clean the bore (Bore Tech Eliminator) and follow with a patch dampened with "Lock-Ease" (colloidal graphite) and let it sit for a minute in the still warm barrel, followed by a loose fitting dry patch to remove the excess graphite. I then use a chamber swab to make sure the chamber area is dry. Then I start the whole thing all over with the next load im testing. Firing the fouling shot over the graphite (minimizes fouling) cleaning and prepping after every 11 shots. (Savage 12VLP .204) Everyone has a different system they use, this works for me...your milage may vary. Dont forget to clean/dry your chamber as I have a friend who shoots a .308 who forgot to swab the chamber area after wet patching his bore (with a bore guide) and his chamber was still wet from cleaning solvent and the next shot fired produced a blackened still wet case. He was suprised to say the least.

I am gad to see this post. I have always enjoyed guns, but just recently I have tried to step it up a notch and become a more serious shooter. I picked up a new CZ 527 and I started reloading earlier this year. I have had mixed results and started to become frustrated. I tried to break in my barrel but I only used Hoppe’s #9 (I did not know if I needed to use any thing else). I have also free-floated my barrel and that has helped, but still not seeing the results that should be. In a 5 shot group, at times, I will have a sub ½” moa with 3 to 4 of the rounds and then 1 or 2 “fliers”. I have been experimenting with different loads. I have been starting with a clean barrel and shooting 5 shots of test loads and then cleaning before the next 5 shot test rounds. I was told today that I needed to "foul" the barrel before I test for grouping. So my question is, what will this do in the field? Will I need to go around with a "fouled" barrel all the time? Like I said I am new to all of this. Thanks for any help.

I will show you what I was talking about. This is my 2 best 100 yard groups from my trip to the range today. Both sets using 39gr Blitz King. The 1st was a 5 shot group using 28.4gr of BLC-2 and the 2nd a 5 shot group using 28.6gr of BLC-2. The rest was not so good. Again thanks for any help!

Regarding fouling shots.....Every barrel has its own quirks, some require 3 or more fouling shots before they will print an acceptable group. In some cases a CLEAN barrel will throw the first shot high. Some barrels require to be fouled and others will print all of its bullets in the same location as the first shot from a CLEAN barrel. Most Big Game hunters I know will sight in their big game rifles and not clean them until they complete their hunt. If they clean their bores after sighting in they will fire a fouling shot or two after reaching their destination and before starting their hunt. Checking their zero once more, but then leaving the barrel fouled. Regarding your groups, my suggestion would be to use a different powder like 25.1gr of Alliant RL-10X with the 39gr. Sierra BK. Try O.A.L. 2.290" or 2.285" Winchester or Hornady brass and Rem 7 1/2BR or CCI-BR4 primers. Hoppe's #9 is MAINLY a powder solvent. Will it remove copper fouling? Some say it will, but BoreTech "Eliminator" is much faster and without the smell. Follow the manufacturers barrel break-in procedures and remove ALL visible copper each time you clean for the first 60 rounds. By that time your barrel should be "broken-in".
A standard production .204 Ruger will lay down some copper in a new barrel, and break in will take some effort unless you have a custom barrel previously hand lapped by the manufacturer.

I am already past 60 shots. Is it to late to go back and do the "Eliminator", or it already as "broke-in" as it is going to be?

BigSkyPreacher wrote:I am gad to see this post. I have always enjoyed guns, but just recently I have tried to step it up a notch and become a more serious shooter. I picked up a new CZ 527 and I started reloading earlier this year. I have had mixed results and started to become frustrated. I tried to break in my barrel but I only used Hoppe’s #9 (I did not know if I needed to use any thing else). I have also free-floated my barrel and that has helped, but still not seeing the results that should be. In a 5 shot group, at times, I will have a sub ½” moa with 3 to 4 of the rounds and then 1 or 2 “fliers”. I have been experimenting with different loads. I have been starting with a clean barrel and shooting 5 shots of test loads and then cleaning before the next 5 shot test rounds. I was told today that I needed to "foul" the barrel before I test for grouping. So my question is, what will this do in the field? Will I need to go around with a "fouled" barrel all the time? Like I said I am new to all of this. Thanks for any help.

I'm trying to become a better shooter also and I'm finding out that consistency behind the trigger plays a VERY BIG part. Good optics and alot of practice

BigSkyPreacher wrote:I am already past 60 shots. Is it to late to go back and do the "Eliminator", or it already as "broke-in" as it is going to be?

you should be using a copper remover, especially with a 204. i will use a copper remover after 50 or 60 rounds, so i don't always use it if i haven't done to much shooting, but i do keep track of number of shots down the tube. after there is a build up of copper in the barrel your accuracy will begin to fall off.
my suggestion would to clean the bore with a carbon remover, like hoppes, first. then clean the bore again with a copper solvent. if you have never used a copper solvent on that rifle, now is the time to start, and make sure you do that bore justice. the barrel is more than likely in very good condition. i doubt that you have destroyed it. after your cleaning process, it is my opinion that you will see your groups become more consistent and tighten up. i also use re10x with the 39gr sbk's, and am getting very good groups, in the 3's, and i get very good groups with benchmark and the same bullet.

Thanks for all of the help. I will pick up some copper remover before I go any further. I will also try to find some 10x. So far the 39gr Blitz Kings are working better with my CZ than the V-Max. I am finding this is a long process with a lot of science, but it sure is fun!

Another approach, rather than shooting one 5 shot group at a time, is to do more of a round robin. Say you have 8 different powder charges you want to try. Post 8 bullseyes, and number them. Fire test shot 1 of sample 1 at Target 1. Shoot test shot 1 of sample 2 at Target 2. Continue until you've shot the first round of each sample at a target. Then shoot the second round of each sample at the appropriately numbered target.

The advantage of this method is that each group is subject to the same amount of powder and copper fouling. This also simulates the progressive fouling that will occur during a shooting session. A particular load that groups well despite the fouling encountered in this testing will likely do quite well for you.

As far as cleaning - it has worked best for me to alternate between powder/carbon and copper solvents. Start with powder solvent, which will clean out the carbon and enable the copper solvent to penetrate into the copper deposits. If the gun is really fouled badly (unlikely in your case) you might have alternating layers of carbon and copper deposits, which might require that you switch between solvents. Usually, though, you can just start with powder solvent, and when patches look clean from that, switch to copper solvent and clean with that until the patches no longer have a green or blue tinge to them.