runout & Redding dies

[Sagebrush Burns]

After running a series of loads using different seating depths, I decided to check for run-out. Talk about an unpleasant surprise! I found I was getting anywhere from .005 to .01 using RCBS dies. Someone mentioned on this forum that this was likely to happen. I am now thinking very hard about getting a set of Redding dies including a bushing neck die, body die, micrometer seating die, and the competition shell holder set. Measuring neck diameter of loaded rounds gave readings of .225/.226 so I'm thinking I need the .224 bushing for the neck die. It is my understanding that these Redding dies are about the best out there and they are not inexpensive so I want to get this right on the first try. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and advice...

[acloco]

Just buy a bushing neck die to start with.

[WHISTLEPIG]

Sagebrush Burns, If you are going to use a bushing neck die you may want to measure the neck on a fired case and see just how much sizing you need to do. If you are shooting a factory chamber and the number is over .004 or .005 you might call the Redding tec line and see if they recommend sizing in two stages. I was advised by them to do so for my 204. I was getting a little run out from the large amount of sizing down of the neck and now do it in two stages with two progressively smaller bushings. Run out solved. The guys at Redding are a great source of knowledge and are very willing to help you solve a problem. They even sent me a bushing for no charge. Don’t forget to lube even if you are using a TIN bushing. I used Imperial wax for years and still do for full length sizing but mostly I use the Imperial dry lube for neck sizing now. For a screw in die you cannot go wrong with any of the Reddings.

[Rick in Oregon]

Sagebrush: "What WP said above" in all respects. I had the same problem with RCBS dies, and replaced all my dies for varmint/precision rifles with Redding and presto...problem solved. I'm using the same exact setup as WP, and agree that when using their Competition Bullet Seating Die, TIR is almost nonexistant. Your targets will show the difference.

Now whenever I'm setting up for a new caliber, I just buy Redding the first time around.

[Sagebrush Burns]

My fired cases measure .230 for neck diameter - guess I'll give the folks at Redding a call and hear what they have to say. Even with all that run-out my rifles is shooting 3/8" 5 shot groups with one load so far, but they opened up with longer bullet seating. Go figure! It is a Savage LRPV and I'm thinking that with good dies we'll be dangerous...

[cshooter]

I'm sorry guys, I guess I have'nt been reloading very long, but what is runout ?

[Sagebrush Burns]

It refers to loads not being concentric - what you might call "wobble factor". If the bullet isn't centered in the bore when fired, accuracy usually suffers. For hunting rounds, .005 is said to be OK, for varmints, .003 and serious shooters strive for .001.

[Rick in Oregon]

cshooter: The term "TIR" is a machine shop term that translates to "Total Indicated Runout". Sagebrush basically said it correctly, in that any bullet that has this runout enters the bore slightly off-center, and as such will never achieve the accuracy potential of a bullet that enters the bore perfectly straight, axially speaking, as upon exit of the muzzle, it will then have a "wobble" applied to it, and for certain be a large group printed at the target.

The only way to check for this condition is with a dial indicator mounted to a base that allows you to gently turn the loaded round on bearings or vee-blocks and check the actual amount of misalignment, or TIR with the indicator. Most reloaders use an indicator that measures to .001", but for extreme precision, an indicator that measures to the tenth, or .0001" is the last word in accuracy measurement.

These tools can also be used to check fired cases to ensure your chamber is not out of round, and other tasks. Here's my setup, a Holland Concentricity Gauge:



Sinclair and others offer some very nice setups, and if you want peak accuracy, this is another tool you'll need at your bench.

[cshooter]

Hmmm. I have been shooting 27 gr. of H4895 & the 39 gr SBK's and running my fired cases through a Lee Collet neck sizer and geting consistant 1 1/2" groups @ 200 yrds. Do you think a runout guage would be nessesary ? Could something cause me accuracy problems in the future that a runout guage would help me overcome ? Or am I better off not confuseing myself ? ( my wife says I'm just a dumb clod and I get in trouble when I think too much - beyond help, she says - I don't listen much to what she says.) Maybe I'd leave better leave well enough alone....................................