SmallCaliberCentral

loaded some up with w748,br4 primers, started with 26.8,27.1,27.4,27.7
.020 off lands. 26.8 was best group ,little over half inch.maybe i need to seat them out further,any comments? gun is savage 12vlp

In my rifle, my rounds are seated pretty deep in the case. Cooper recommended an oal, and I tried that, and haven't changed. Have you tried other powders? I'm shooting Benchmark with real good results. From reading other posts, the oal for most .204's varies a LOT, and doesn't seem to be as critical for good accuracy.

I've tried W748 in my 204s but haven't been very successful with it. I've had very good results with RL10X and N133. Other folks also report outstanding results with H4895, as well as the Benchmark.

im gonna try benchmark,and h4895

My Savages shoot Benchmark and R10X very well with 39 bk's but the R10X has better velocity. If I have the inclination to work up another load I will try H4895 because it is cheaper and easier to get in my area. I used 10X because Silverfox was using it last year with great results, but now I think he prefers the H4895. I have high reguard for his advice. He shoots prairie dogs and coyotes like I do in an area with similar conditions. You can take Silverfox's advice to the bank!

i use h4895 in my .223, groups .101

What's Silverfox's load useing H4895 & the 39 BK's ? Primer, case, and velocity with barrel length ?

P.S. My Ruger likes RE-10x alot, what's his reason for the change ?

Hotshot-- Just before I opened this thread I thought I could tell someone was talking or writing about me--you are very kind to heap praise on old Silverfox--THANKS!!! I certainly hope I can live up to your great billing for me!!!

cshooter-- It goes without saying that the loads I list are safe in my rifle and in my conditions and your mileage may vary greatly, so start with lower powder charges and work up slowly.

The reason I changed from Reloder 10X to H4895 was that I found, at least to me, there was a big difference in the burn rate from the first lot of Rel 10X I used to the second lot I tried. Maybe I hit two different lots that were the extreme rather than the mean??? Back in the first couple weeks of May 2005, I tested six different powders with the 39 gr. Sierras. The brass I used was always WW brass and my primers were and are the Remington 7½ BR primers. I use a Redding Type S bushing neck sizing die and seat my bullets with a Forster Ultra micrometer seating die.

The first lot of Rel 10X powder I used was from 2002 and the second lot was manufactured in 2003. Here are a couple of groups I shot with 24.8 gr. of Rel 10X from that first lot of powder.



The group below was after I had made my final scope adjustments to get the scope lined up so I was a tad over 1" high at 100 yards.



I thought I had found the mother of all loads for the 39 gr. Sierra. I loaded up all the casings I could with the Rel 10X I had left after my test loads were fired on June 12, 2005, and headed out to Eastern Montana for some prairie dog killin'. When I got back from the PD shooting trip, I tried to find some Rel 10X from that same lot and none was to be found. I could only find Rel 10X made in 2003. When I started using the second pound from 2003, the velocity and the accuracy were not there with the 24.8 gr. load. As a matter of fact, here is what happened to a bunch of my brand new WW casings when I shot test loads of 24.8 gr. of the new Rel 10X powder.



I surmised that these dents were caused by gas escaping from the barrel area in front of the case mouth back into the chamber because the powder wasn't burning fast enough and not expanding the casing quick enough to close off the area around the neck and shoulder of the casing. Alliant Powder Co. didn't seem to think that was a big problem???? SAY WHAT???? When I told them about the differences in powder charges required to obtain a similar muzzle velocity as the older lot of powder and the amount of powder required to keep gas from blowing back by the shoulder, they told me that the difference I was finding was well within their quality production standards!!

To get the groups to tighten up and the velocity to increase to near the 24.8 gr. load with the 2002 powder, I had to increase the charge weight from 24.8 gr. all the way up to 25.5 gr. According to Sierra's reloading data a charge of 25.1 gr. of Rel 10X is their maximum recommended powder charge. My groups were not near as tight as they were with the first lot of powder. Here's a group that was typical of about the best I could shoot with the new lot of powder. This one has the muzzle velocity listed. All other targets have the velocity as measured 12 feet from the muzzle listed on the target. You can usually add somewhere between 15 to 20 fps to that number to get the muzzle velocity.



While that group is nothing to be ashamed of, it is nowhere near as small as I had come to expect and enjoy from my earlier pound of Rel 10X. I went back to my reloading records and found that several of the loads I tested with the 39 gr. Sierra and H4895 had been very accurate. So I started some load testing with that bullet and H4895.

I continued to use WW brass, Rem 7½ primers, neck sized the brass. I use the Stoney Point comparator to measure my loaded rounds from the base of the casing to the ogive, but for you who measure OAL, that measurement for my loads is right around 2.3825 to 2.385". There is less variance in the comparator measurement--.0015" than measuring to the tip of the bullet, which as you can see, varies .006". Anyway, here's a couple of three-shot groups from 100 yards with my new H4895 load of 28.0 gr. This is WELL ABOVE the Sierra recommended max and slightly above the 27.7 gr. of H4895 max load listed by Hodgdon for the 40 gr. V-Max. I worked up to this load very slowly and it is safe in my rifle. I'd recommend you work your way up slowly and maybe stay below this load for safety's sake!!!

Here's one of my 5-shot test groups done on May 25, 2006. I loaded up a bunch with this powder charge and that's what I have been using with the 39 gr. Sierra ever since.



The next group below was shot on August 14, 2006 and the group below that was shot on August 28, 2006.

Silverfox, What brand of rifle are you shooting? I'm working up loads with H4895 for a Savage 12 FV. So far the 10X loads have been pretty tight.

fredbeer--My rifle is a Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger that I purchased the first week of June 2004 over in Miles City, MT. There weren't any of these rifles available out in NW North DaColder. I have a Leupold VX-III 6.5-20x40mm long range side focus scope on this rifle. It has the wide duplex reticule. The bipod I have on the rifle is a Harris swivel model in 9" to 13" with leg notches. I also have a Pod-Lock attachment to make it easy to adjust the tension on the swivel part of the bipod. I usually lay prone while calling, but also carry along my home-made shooting sticks. I have those in my hand in the photo.

The coyote in the photo below was called to within 40 yards of my hidey spot and only 20 yards from the FOXPRO caller I had hanging on a fence post. A rancher friend of mine had been losing calves to coyotes and called me to come out and try to thin out the coyote "herd" for him. About a week before this outing, I had called in an ugly manged female coyote and my son dropped the hammer on that one.



I was sitting in front of a rock pile located up the hill WWNW from where I had the FOXPRO set up.





However, even though my head may have been sticking up above the big rock I sat in front of, the coyote was very intent on the FOXPRO hanging on the fence post to the EESE of me and located almost straight north of the coyote.



I would still be shooting Rel 10X if I hadn't had the BAAD experience with that lot of powder from 2003. Maybe I am lucky with my other powders, but I have NEVER (I'll knock on wood now) had that big a difference in charge weights when changing from one lot of powder to another. I just didn't like the dented casings and, while I do load over the max from time to time, I wasn't sure the Rel 10X was all that safe. I figured that the next pound of powder would probably be way different in burn rate than the 2003, so I used the Rel 10X I had left to fertilize some of my plants. If it is shooting good for you and you have a good supply of that lot of powder, there's no real good reason for you to switch. I have just had such good luck with H4895 that when the Rel 10X didn't pan out, I made the switch.

I use H4895 with my 35 gr. FBHP Berger load, and I have a load of H4895 for the 40 gr. Nosler BTs that I will use once I burn up all the AA2520 I'm using with that bullet. I also use a lot of H4895 with various bullets in my two .17 Remingtons. Varget has also been a good powder for me in one of my .17 Remingtons and in my 22-250 too. I purchase H4895 by the 8# cannister.

Silverfox, in your opinion, will the 39 gr Blitzkings work on coyotes as good or at least well enough as compared to the 35 gr Berger hp's ?

I just have better long range accuracy and less wind drift with the BK's than the Bergers in my gun (past 150 yrds).

cshooter--The first two coyotes I shot with my Savage 12VLP were shot with 32 gr. V-Max handloads--and those bullets left the muzzle at about 4,250 fps!!!! Both of those coyotes died instantly, however both of those shots were dead on into the center mass of the chest while the coyote was facing me head-on. I switched to the 35 gr. FBHP Bergers and shot those through the 2004-05, 2005-06, and 2006-07 fur seasons.

Last April, the rancher friend of mine mentioned in my "little picture essay" above asked me to come out and thin out his coyote herd. I already had my rifle sighted in for the 39 gr. Sierras because I was anticipating the upcoming prairie dog season. Anyway, I shot two coyotes with those 39 gr. Sierras. One of them was a shot with the coyote standing quartering to me and I hit her close to the left shoulder. Tiny hole in and NO hole out. The second coyote I shot was the one in the "little picture essay" above. He was broadside to me at 40 yards. I hit him just in front of the left shoulder blade. Tiny entrance hole and NO exit. I have mentioned these two kills on this board before and stated that these two shots don't prove or disprove what's going to happen when you shoot coyotes with the 39 gr. Sierras. However, I am going to use them this fur season to see what the results are on fur damage and knock-down power. Your mileage may vary, but, again, if you hit them on the edges with any bullet you are going to have some damage and you aren't going to put them down right away. Shot placement remains very important.